William “Bill” L. Exeter is the Chief Executive Officer, Chief Trust Officer and President for The Exeter Group of Companies. Bill has been in the banking, trust and fiduciary services industry since 1980. He began specializing in real estate tax strategies in 1985 with a specialty emphasis in 1031 and 1033 Exchanges as well as Self-Directed IRAs.
Immediately prior to founding The Exeter Group of Companies he served as President and Chief Executive Officer for four years of TransUnion Exchange Corporation (formerly Diversified Exchange Corporation) in San Diego, California and prior to that as Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer for 13 years of The Chicago Trust Company of California and Chicago Deferred Exchange Corporation of California, its 1031 Exchange subsidiary, in San Diego, California, which were part of the Chicago Title and Trust Family of Companies.
Bill’s professional experience includes 1031 Exchanges, 1033 Exchanges, title insurance and escrow services, trust company management fiduciary, trust and self-directed retirement account administration and services, including Self-Directed IRAs, trust operations, investment management services, commercial banking, and insurance administration.
Bill graduated from California State University, Los Angeles with a Bachelors of Science degree in Accounting.
Episode Notes:
Narrator  This is The Norris Group’s Real Estate investor radio show, the award-winning show dedicated to thought leaders shaping the real estate industry and local experts revealing their insider tips to succeed in an ever-changing real estate market hosted by author, investor and hard money lender, Bruce Norris.
Bruce Norris Thanks for joining us, my name is Bruce Norris, and today our special guest is Bill Exeter. Bill is the Chief Executive Officer, Chief Trust Officer, and President for The Exeter Group of Companies. Bill has been in the banking trust and fiduciary service industry since 1980. He’s been specializing in real estate tax strategies since 1985, with a specialty emphasis and 1031 and 1033 exchanges, as well as self-directed IRAs. Bill has successfully dealt with probably every 1031 exchange we’ve had for as long as I can remember and that’s an important thing to say, because there’s a lot of trust involved in 1031 exchanges. So, Bill, thank you for taking good care of us.
Bill Exeter  You’re most welcome. That explains why my hair is half gone.
Bruce Norris  How long is 1031 exchange been around? You know, sometimes when you get these amazing tax rule changes, sort of like the you can make 500 grand on your house every two years. When that, when that was written. I called the smartest guy I knew going is this really true. So, that day had to happen when 1031 exchanges were invented? How long has it been around?
Bill Exeter  This is actually the 100-year anniversary of 1031 exchanges. They’ve been around a long time.
Bruce Norris  Wow. That’s an amazing thing. And what was, what was the thought process behind we, I think we should be able to sell all this stuff and never pay taxes, because that’s it’s an amazing gift.
Bill Exeter  It really is. I mean, if you go back 100 years, the kind of the root cause or reason for it was that back then we didn’t have the ability to value assets like livestock, things like that. And so the 1031 exchange is really devised to allow farmers and people like that to swap assets that they say, well, I think these are for the most part of value. We don’t know how to value them. So, we’re not going to tax it on that. And it’s evolved from that to what we have today.
Bruce Norris  Okay. It never occurred to me that it started with inventory other than real estate. So, it’s covered the gamut for for in the early years.
Bill Exeter  It really did. In fact, we were able to do 1031 exchanges on any type of asset held for rental investment or business use up until the Tax Reform Act of 2017. And that’s the one that eliminated personal property. So, ever since January 1, 2018, we’ve only been able to do 1031 exchanges on real estate.
Bruce Norris  Rumor has it that they’re looking at saying we maybe want to disallow 1031 exchanges. So, who’s in charge of defending that in front of people that make those decisions? And what do you think the likely outcome of that will be?
Bill Exeter  Good question. Yeah, there is that nasty rumor out there. And it certainly it started back in when it was the Biden campaign. And they had proposed limiting it or eliminating it completely if you made more than 40,000 a year. And then of course, once it was the Biden administration, they proposed allowing investors to defer up to $500,000. They didn’t clarify much there. So, if you fast forward to today, about a month ago, or so the green book came out, which is Biden’s kind of proposed budget or wish list. And you know, a lot of that’s not going to happen, he won’t get everything he’s asking for but it does give us a view into what his wish list is and what he’s trying to do. And it did clarify that if these things go through his, his capital, the $500,000, in total taxable gain, you can defer per year, per taxpayer, so husband and wife could defer up to a million. But that’s just his wish list. And to kind of go back in time, I’ve been doing this for 37 years, every three to five years, we have some type of a proposed change or proposed elimination at 1031 exchanges. And it’s usually all about education. It’s usually somebody in the back office has thought about erasing section 1031 from the tax code. And if that occurs, look at all this tax revenue we’re going to collect. And as you know, Bruce, in reality a lot of investors wouldn’t sell and then you have to title fees to escrow companies to realtors, etc. They don’t collect a fee. They don’t pay tax. So, it’s actually a tax and loser.
Bruce Norris  Yeah, say that’s, yeah, was it Because that was really my next question is okay, what are the ramifications of that you’re right brokers don’t get commissions, and probably people don’t sell an upgrade what they own, they just sit there. So, it’s not a tax revenue generator at all. It’s a very bad idea for the economy, just like capital gains tax, okay, we’ve had capital gains tax equal to the highest tax rate before. And it didn’t raise revenue. People just didn’t sell their stuff.
Bill Exeter  Absolutely.
Bruce Norris  You know, I, it’s frustrating when you see this going on and going, wait a minute, we, you know, we have tried to go back a long time, we already know how this plays out. So, it’s sort of like grandstanding to make make everybody happy, but the net revenue doesn’t occur. So, what’s the point? Why don’t we think of another way.
Bill Exeter  And that’s exactly, yes, it’s just one more thing they can throw out there. And it makes him look good, because he’s trying to tax the rich. And, you know, that’s, that’s another point in our business. We’ve never really computed the numbers, but I would say give or take about 95% of our clients are not phenomenally wealthy people. I mean, they’re just average, you know, Dick and Jane who own a couple rental properties, and they do exchanges to trade up or their business owners who need to trade up, and this helps them get there and create more jobs. Most of the business is not done by the wealthy.
Bruce Norris  That’s Yeah, that’s interesting. The types of property that can participate in a 1031 exchange, what are they?
Bill Exeter  So, it’s a very broad list. You know, a lot of people get hung up on the term like kind. And, literally, like kind means you’re selling real estate, you have to buy real estate, simple as that. So, like kind real estate could include any type of real estate that’s held for rental or held for investment. I differentiate between the two because rental, obviously, you bought something you rented or leased it out, you collect income, but you could also buy real estate of any type and just hold it for capital appreciation might be land, they can land dirt, what have you. It might be a condo, you just buy it and hold it for capital appreciation, then sell it later. So, hold for investment also qualifies could be mostly used in the trader business too. So, any of that would work.
Bruce Norris  Yeah. One of the things that so always challenging is investors are creative. So, we don’t, we don’t intentionally cross lines, but we do it accidentally because we think outside the box. So,what you just said, so let’s say, so I sell a building, and I buy a condo. And I, it’s going to be in a hot area, and it’s going to go up in value. And I don’t even rent it, I leave it vacant I use it. Is that a problem?
Bill Exeter  Well, your question, so you can certainly hold it and hold it for capital appreciation. If you use it personally. And let’s say you use it for maybe two weeks a year.
Bruce Norris  Yeah.
Bill Exeter  It is a safe harbor. That’s okay. If you go over two weeks per year, you’re in uncharted territory, you’re outside the Safe Harbor, then it boils down to facts and circumstances. So, if you rent it, let’s say eight or nine or 10 months out of the year, and you use it for 30 days, you’re probably okay. If you use it for 30 days, and there’s no rental activity, it’s probably not okay, it’s probably going to be classified as a second home or a vacation home for personal use and the 1031 exchange will be disqualified.
Bruce Norris  Is that painful?
Bill Exeter  Today, yes, the tax consequences, especially if you’re in California could be 30 up to, almost 40% if everything kicks in. Under the proposed changes with the Biden administration, it would be exceptionally painful. I don’t think all of those are going to go through but if it gets some of what he wants it to be even more painful.
Bruce Norris  Okay. The number of days there’s two categories of times. So, kind of go over that for us. I, I close my, so I have an we’re sitting in a building, that’s an escrow. So, I’m going to be doing a 1031 exchange with you here very shortly. So, how many days after closing do I have to say that’s, this is what I’m going to buy?
Bill Exeter  Good question, especially in today’s market, that’s really the challenge when the escrow close and so it’s all about the close of escrow it’s not when you sign the contract or open escrow. It’s the close of escrow the triggers everything. And once escrow closes, let’s say escrow closes today, then tomorrow would be considered day number one, and you’ve got 45 calendar days to actually identify what you’re going to buy. And in today’s market, that’s the toughest part because this is a fast market, multiple offers, bidding wars, tight inventory, you name it, it’s, it’s a challenging market. And then after the 45 days, you have an additional 135 days to actually complete and close on your purchases. And that’s a total of 180 days so 45 to i.d, an additional 135 days to wrap it up a total of 180.
Bruce Norris  So I’m going to sell one commercial building. And can I nominate any number of replacement properties? Or is there a limit on what I can, what I can exchange into as far as numbers?
Bill Exeter  There’s no real limit on what you can exchange into. But where it gets complicated is you have three different identification rules. So, one is the three property rule, you can’t identify more than three properties, but there’s no limit on value. If you want to identify more than three properties, then you would look at the 200% rule. And with that rule, there’s no limit on the number of properties the limit is on the value that you identified. So, if you sell a commercial office building, let’s say it’s 5,000,000, 200%, would be 10 million, you could identify up to $10 million of value, there’s no limit on the number of properties, and you’ll only have to comply with one of those two.
Bruce Norris  Okay.
Bill Exeter  And the third one is the 95% exception. And that’s really designed for a portfolio acquisition. We had a lady q while back, identified 40 properties, 40 single family residential properties, and we call them, there’s over three year over the 200% limit, but it was one contract one seller, one closing, she’s either gonna buy 100% or zero. So, in that case, she falls into the 95% if she bought 100%.
Bruce Norris  Okay. When nice, you know, I mean, obviously, the commercial building is in my name or my entity that I have, when a 1031 exchange starts, the money goes to your side of the table. Are you are you technically the seller in that sense, or just the recipient of the money? How does that work?
Bill Exeter 11:51Kind of both. So, one of the requirements is that the 1031 exchange be set up prior to closing. And part of that documentation package includes an assignment documents, so the purchase and sale agreement to sell the property is assigned to us as Qualified Intermediary. So, that really means we are stepping into your shoes, we become the seller, and that’s what prevents the tax consequence. And then at the closing the right to receive the proceeds goes to us that wire the funds to us and we deposit that into your qualified trust account. And that’s what defers everything if the 1031 exchange is not set up prior to closing, even if you tell escrow don’t disperse the funds, I’m going to do a 1031 exchange, it’s taxable, because you have the right to the proceeds. So, that’s the key issue there. get everything set up before closing and the funds do come to us.
Joey Romero  And part of that is setting up an LLC, right?
Bill Exeter  Yes, it depends on the transaction. If it’s a reverse 1031 exchange or an improvement 1031 exchange, then we have to take title to one of the two properties involved in the transaction. So, in that case, we’d set up an LLC, we generally acquire and hold or what the IRS calls Park legal title to the replacement property. That’s because you’re buying first or you’re going to buy first and then construct on the property in a standard, regular forward 1031 exchange you’re selling first. In that case, there’s no LLC involved. So, we would actually just structure and set up the 1031 exchange, the proceeds are coming to us and we hold them in our Trust Company.
Bruce Norris  Let, let’s say that I get the commercial building sold for a million dollars and I find a million dollar property, one property I nominate that’s it. And we go past the 45 days. And the seller says you know what? Something happened in my life, I can’t sell you the property.
Bill Exeter  And that falls into the ‘ouch’ category.
Bruce Norris  Yeah.
Bill Exeter  So, you gotta find properties, whether it be one or three, or use the 200%, whatever you, whatever you identify, you can change your mind, as long as you are still inside the 45 day window. Once you’ve passed that 45 day window, then you can’t change your mind, you’re stuck with what your final identification was. So, in that example, if you identified one property and you’re past the 45 days, and the seller has anything that changes his mind, he can’t sell to you or for whatever reason you decide not to buy it because maybe due diligence, turn something up and you decide not to proceed with it, then it becomes a failed exchange. And it’s taxable. At that point, there’s no way to go back and unring the bell, so to speak, so it becomes a failed exchange and taxable.
Bruce Norris  So, when we know it’s a failed exchange, is that the money then is released? Or do you have to wait 280 days for that to be released?
Bill Exeter  That’s a good question that also triggered kind of another thoughts. I’ll kind of expand the answer. It’s my favorite answer. It depends. The clients I know it’s quite sweet that answer depends. But if you’re in the 45 days, then we have to wait to the 46 day and once the 46th occurs if nothing has been identified we can release the funds on the 46th day, if you’ve identified property, and then for whatever reason you can’t close on that, then under the Treasury regulations, we have to wait to the 181st day. So, those are kind of the requirements. But we’re now on July 1, and going forward in the second half of 2021. So, in this case, if your sale closes, going forward, your 180 day lands in 2022. So, the 1031 exchange works in conjunction with section 453 of the tax code, that’s the installment sale code. So, because under the Treasury regulations, you’re not allowed to have access to your funds until the 181st day, and that happens to land in 2022, it actually pushes the game into 2022. You could also elect to take the tax in 2021, if that’s better for you. So, even if your exchange fails, there could be some urine planning opportunities that are based on the tax code.
Bruce Norris  You know, what’s fun about talking to you, to be honest with you, is you’ve, you, you can forget what how am I going to say this, no matter how much I tried to learn. It’s like you’ve, you’ve, you’ve forgotten more than I will ever know, if you you know what I’m saying it’s like you live and breathe this stuff.
Bill Exeter  Which I think makes me a sick puppy.
Bruce Norris 16:22I understand I have one of the things in charts, you know, I have a passion for that, too. So, what now what happens if I’m, gosh, you know, that just doesn’t seem fair. I’d like to nominate it a property in arrears and make that 45 days happen, still? What happens when I try to do that?
Bill Exeter  Good question. So, technically, obviously, you’re doing it on purpose. So, in that case, the investor is effectively trying to backdate his identification form that puts the investor into tax fraud category or areas. And if it’s done on purpose, if the service wanted to, they could go down the criminal tax fraud path, because they’re really doing it on purpose. So, in that case, under audit, they would disqualify the machine because it wasn’t effectively identified during the 45-day window. That would trigger all the capital gain and depreciation recapture and any other related taxes that might be due, it would trigger interest income from the day they should have paid it to the day they actually pay it. In this case, because it was effectively intentional. They would charge penalties. Penalties could be up to 50% of what you actually owe on the taxes.
Bruce Norris  Yeah, I’ve read a little bit about that. So, that’s one of the places where you don’t get creative.
Bill Exeter  Yeah, it’s not a good idea to do that. And, and other providers like their you know, in any geographic area, you go, there’s always one or two qualified intermediaries that you hear about that will do that. And that means they’re also participating in criminal tax fraud, and anybody who normally doesn’t is asking for trouble at some point in the future, somebody will get caught in, we’re going to be a pretty picture.
Bruce Norris  When, when I close the sale of my property, and the proceeds go into your side of the world, correct?
Bill Exeter  Correct.
Bruce Norris  Are there? Are there examples where what I thought was my money disappears?
Bill Exeter 18:19Yes, in fact, I’ve been doing this for 37 years, like I said before, and there’s been numerous qualified intermediaries that fail. And that’s the sad part is that it happens and in most cases, it’s been some type of, you know, misappropriation of funds or fraud or something like that and occasionally, it’s been just poor investments. Probably the biggest one the most well known is the LandAmerica 1031 exchange, which was due to the 2008 recession. In their case, there was no fraud or misappropriation of funds, they were investing in auction rate securities. Those are not bad investments, but they’re absolutely not prudent for 1031 exchange funds. And in February ’08 I believe or ’09 I can’t remember the auction rate securities market froze. So, that kind of forced them into a Ponzi scheme and you know, new money coming in was used to pay out building money. And then the market and the recession got worse, that was less coming in more going out they had to use corporate capital to cover the outflow. And that ultimately brought the entire LandAmerica family down the title of their title companies or escrow companies, the exchange company, and they ended up in bankruptcy and most qualified intermediaries hold the funds in their corporate name, which is perfectly okay from a 1031 exchange perspective. But when you end up in bankruptcy the court really like they should have which is these are not flying funds, these are Qualified Intermediary corporate funds. It’s critical that the funds are held in either a qualified as for qualified trust account. That was one of the big reasons we started Exeter Trust Company so that all the funds are held in a qualified trust account through Exeter Trust. That also makes is one of the few that has any licensing and regulatory and government oversight as well.
Bruce Norris  Okay. Well, that’s always a scary thought, you know, because I have had I’ve had, I get those calls once in a blue moon, my 1031 exchange money just disappear. Like, oh, boy, that’s not good.
Bill Exeter  Yeah, it’s kind of a double whammy, the money disappears. So, therefore, you can’t complete your exchange, therefore, it becomes taxable. I need to skip this really nasty circle events that starts to happen.
Bruce Norris  Yes. Because of the Coronavirus, we actually have run into this where we have a 1031 exchange. And all of a sudden timeframe to construct through no one’s fault has changed. They couldn’t get lumber, you couldn’t you couldn’t work or they close the lumber mills to create the lumber etc. How does the IRS handle something that’s out of the control of all the participants? So, their evidence is that they say we get it on not just this time, there’s been times in the past where they have probably said, okay, we get it. Did they handle this one that way yet? Or is that maybe still to come?
Bill Exeter  I think they’ve they’ve done what they’re going to do, I don’t think we’re going to see anything further. If we do that would be fantastic. It’d be a surprise. But everything they did was actually last year in 2020. And you’re right, this is something they do off and on. Usually it’s some type of a natural disaster. So, a fire a flood or hurricane tornado, what have you, and if the taxpayer or the affected properties are in the disaster zone that has been declared by the president, then the IRS will grant an extension of 120 days. So, that either means the 45 day identification period gets extended by 120 days, or the 180 day exchange period gets extended by 120 days. Last year with COVID-19. It was kind of an uncharted territory, it wasn’t a date specific event, there wasn’t a natural disaster on March 1, it was a you know a medical disease that just kind of kept on going, the gift that keeps on giving so to speak. So, they did something really different that was odd. And what they did is if your transaction closed, or occurred between April 1 and July 1, your deadlines were extended to July 15. So, it’s a really odd way to approach that. If your transaction started April 1, you got a great extension. If your action started July 1, you got a couple days extended and didn’t really help a whole lot. And there’s been nothing since then. So, at this point, if they’ve missed the deadline, it’s difficult to say what might happen to some of the clients that said we’re going to continue anyways and report it and just say, look, we could get it done because of COVID-19 related issues. But the service doesn’t really have authority to extend those deadlines unless the president declares a disaster and then further declares timeframes.
Bruce Norris  Okay. When I’m selling a property, that is, that has debt on it, and I exchange would say first of all, like before closes, can I, is it okay for me to pay off the debt and exchange into free and clear properties? Is that okay?
Bill Exeter  Yes.
Bruce Norris  Okay. If I have that, and I go to an exchange, and the debt is paid off during the escrow, what is that? What are the rules about me replicating the debt and or the penalty if I don’t?
Bill Exeter  Good questions to be, the debt can certainly be paid off your clothes, and it has to be obviously, at that point, then let’s say you’ve got a million dollar asset, you’ve got $600,000 in debt $400,000 in equity, you go to reinvest, what do you buy one property or you buy two properties, the total amount of what you buy is what matters. So as long as you buy something that’s equal or greater than a million dollars to satisfy your full reinvestment requirement, and then you move over all of your equity. So, all the $400,000 of equity in that example, get reinvested and you can allocate between multiple properties any way you want, as long as you reinvest all of it.
Bruce Norris  Okay.
Bill Exeter  And then generally, you’re gonna replace your debt. So if you got 600,000 in debt on the new purchases, you’re going to get another $600,000 in debt. Although contrary to what you read on the internet, which saw often says you have to replace your debt. You can replace your debt with out of pocket cash if you want to, so it doesn’t have to be debt, but you do have to trade equal or up in value based on the property purchase price. And then you either get new debt or you put in more cash.
Bruce Norris  Interesting, okay. If I, okay, using that same example I borrow 500 grand still, I’m still okay because obviously I took 100 grand to make up the difference.
Bill Exeter  Yes.
Bruce Norris  Okay. That’s not a penalty. Well what, when does boot kick in what is boot, and it’s probably not a good word so…
Bill Exeter  But it’s probably the most commonly used. So, boot is really a taxable event or tax consequence. And it occurs in a couple of cases. One is you sell for a million, maybe you buy for 900,000. So, you trade down by 100,000. And of course, we’re ignoring closing costs. So, in this case, you sell for 1 million you buy for 900, you’ve traded down by 100,000, that would be taxable boot, you’ve you’ve not reinvested that last $100,000 amount, that will be taxable, it could be that you sell for a million to buy for a million. But in that last example, instead of replacing $600,000 in debt, you replace it with $700,000 in debt. So now, you’re only able to reinvest 300,000 of your equity and you have 100,000, cash left over there was not reinvested, that would be what they call cash, boo. So that would also be a taxable event. So effectively, if you’re trading down in value, or you end up with cash left over, that’s taxable boot, and it’s going to create a tax consequence.
Bruce Norris  And what does that tax at? How does, how is that, how does the IRS Look at that?
Bill Exeter 26:14First, it’s generally applied to depreciation recapture rates at the federal level, it’s usually 25%. If you own the property for a very long time, and maybe a different rate, so check with your accountant. Then once you’ve recognized all of your depreciation recapture, then it’s applied to capital gain taxes. That is usually anywhere from 15 or 20%, depending on your adjusted gross income, your tax bracket, then depending on the amount of gain, you might trigger the Medicare surcharge or depreciation recapture tax that’s starting to Medicare or the Obamacare tax. That’s the 3.8% tax that might kick in. And then of course, you have state rate, whatever that might be.
Bruce Norris  I live in Florida it’s zero.
Joey Romero  Bill at the same time you talked about dealing with but what if, what if I’m going to, my, my relinquished property is going to get me 500,000. Okay, can I go buy 200- $300,000 homes?
Bill Exeter  Yes, so in that case, you’re gonna buy multiple properties. So, as long as you buy two or three or four properties and the add up to the correct amount, so you’ve reinvested everything, then that would absolutely work. And that’s a very common strategy because it allows you to sell one and buy two or three or four. So, you’re diversifying your investments, you’ve got multiple properties, multiple tenants, you’ve diversified your risk. Some people even buy those properties in different counties, different states and diversify by geography. So, it gives you a great way to really diversify your risk into different locations and multiple properties.
Joey Romero  And then it’s just up to me whether I want to do with cash or, or however, I want to fund the rest of it, right?
Bill Exeter  Absolutely. Yep.
Bruce Norris  Kind of wrapping up, what what do you see is the, like, the biggest pitfall, when people do exchanges, either they’re misunderstanding or mistakes that are that are made that are very costly for somebody doing their first exchange?
Bill Exeter  Ah, usually the first one, it’s lack of planning is probably the overall category. You know, with 1031s, especially in markets like today, timing and planning is everything, and no bumps in the road are going to come up. So, as long as you’ve got everything laid out everything ready to go and your plan in place, and something happens, you can probably deal with it. Those clients who just sell their property end up in their 45-day window, and then start saying, what do we need to do? You’ve, you’ve significantly increased your stress because you don’t have a whole lot of things left. So, it’s all about planning. The biggest mistakes we see the most often are, they forget to call and set up an exchange and closes so that it’s taxable, regardless, we get two or three of those calls every week. So, that happens quite a bit. Second, as they lose track of their timelines. So, even though we remind people usually three times about the 45-day identification deadline, every week, we get phone calls where they say I missed the deadline, what do I do? It’s like, there’s nothing you can do, you can’t backdate it and there’s no ability to get an extension. So, those are probably the most common that we see in terms of errors.
Bruce Norris  Okay. Sorry about that. I didn’t expect to have my phone go on. Okay, um, well, I think I think we’ve done the subject and I appreciate trust to trust me, I appreciate that we can trust you. And for me, you’re the authority on this on this game of 1031 exchanges. And I hope it stays in place. As I am about to do that. I don’t want to hear the word retroactive on this subject at all.
Bill Exeter 29:50Well, that’s a good point. So, we, are part of a coalition that has been educating members of Congress and the administration on you know, what is a 1031 exchange? How bad would it really be if you restricted or eliminated the,the green book that came out has effectively said that the effective date would be January 1, 2022. So, that’s good. That’s the first thing you come out with a solid date. Obviously, that can change. That’s the Green Book is nothing that’s set in writing, it’s not a bill. But that does give us an indication of what they’re looking at. The lobbyist we talked to 90% of them are saying or all of them we talked to it’s a 90% chance they will not be included in the bill. Obviously, there’s a 10% chance that it could be. So, it’s all about educating members of Congress and the administration today about why this is a bad thing. And for you guys, and listeners, if they want to help and they want to register their opposition to the change, they can go to 1031taxreform.com. So that’s 1031taxreform.com. It takes about two minutes, you can actually log in, you punch in your home address, it automatically populates who your senator and your House of Representative members are, then you hit submit, and it just sends an email to them and says I have jack and that’s all you have to do. It takes about two minutes. And we’re hearing that, that has been getting a really good response and it’s having an effect.
Bruce Norris  That’s fantastic. What, can you give your website for our people that might need your services?
Bill Exeter  Sure. That’s Exeter1031.com. So it’s E-X-E-T-E-R1031.com. Or they can call the headquarters office at area code 619-239-3091.
Bruce Norris  All right, Bill, thank you very much for taking time out of your day to talk.
Bill Exeter  My pleasure. Thanks for having fun. Take care.
Bruce Norris  Okay, see you.
Narrator  For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with The Norris Group, check out thenorrisgroup.com. For information on passive investing with trust deeds, visit tngtrustdeeds.com.
Aaron Norris  The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.