VP OF OPERATIONS
Mr. Surabi has worked on development projects in many US states on a multitude of residential projects for more than 15 years. He has personally been part of constructing over 100 homes on investment speculation. Right now, Mr. Surabi specializes in building systems and assembling resources to be able to scale the ADU business with a goal of building 100 ADU’s per year throughout California.
Episode Notes:
Narrator  This is The Norris Group’s real estate investor radio show the award-winning show dedicated to thought leaders shaping the real estate industry and local experts revealing their insider tips to succeed in an ever -changing real estate market hosted by author, investor and hard money lender, Bruce Norris.
Aaron Norris  Hey, everybody it’s Aaron Norris with the Norris Group. We are back again with the team at ADU Resource Center talking about everything ADU . You won’t want to miss this one. Check out ADUResourceCenter.com if you want more information, but let’s get to the conversation. I didn’t prep you guys with this question. But I’ve been teaching a lot about SB 9 right now. It’s only available for homeowners. Are you starting to get a lot more questions about people wanting to build a duplex and you know, use your ADU designs for that and then sell it separately?
Avedis Nalbandian  Yeah, the SB 9 it’s starting to come in, people are starting to find out about it. Like, I mean, I feel like a lot of people are coming in late to the game for it. So, we’re getting very few kind of trickling in slowly. But I mean, look how long ADU took about about what, three, four years now since it’s actively been progressing. And people are barely starting to hit the ground running now with it. So, I think we’re getting a lot of them. One of the common things that we’re getting asked is how many ADU can I pair with those SB 9 units that we’re building. So, it’s coming in and out quite often. It’s just we haven’t had one yet to get started officially on so.
Aaron Norris  Interesting. It’s gonna be wild to see how this works out. That’s for sure. I know Christie, who was on the show about a month ago. She’s been working on a lot split in LA that’s taken well over a year. It’s just taken so long and why I like ADU law. It’s very specific, it’s known, you’re not going to run into the same problems because who knows how long, anything under SB 9 how long it will take?
Avedis Nalbandian  Yeah, that’s that we’ve noticed actually, I don’t know if originally when ideas came out, people were so unsure people cities, were saying just submit it. We’ll have a committee review, we’ll discuss what corrections you need to make for your property, and then we’ll move forward. And now like what, three, four years later finally, some cities are figuring it out how to progress and some cities are still far behind. And they’re in the stone age with their ADU progression. But the same thing what now SB 9 like LA the other day, we call we had some questions to ask them, we said, oh, we’re kind of uncertain. These are the steps that are required for you to go about it. But once you submit, these are going to be the, this is gonna be the process. We’re gonna have the committee review, do the corrections and go about it. So, everyone’s kind of scared to officially dedicate to something and move forward. But I feel like once it does, it’s going to be a really, really great, great thing for the ADU business and for just real estate in general.
Shara Surabi  Yeah, we almost started an SB 9 project with Christie actually our was out. But she changed her mind. She decided not to move forward with us.
Aaron Norris  Because she’d have to live there. Yeah, I think we were talking about that she brought everybody together and trying to see what how it would work. Just because so much of your business is owner occupant. How many are talking about triplex sizing and adding a JADU to the site at the same time?
Shara Surabi  Not as many as I would think majority of our projects are just, just an idea. I would say 85, 90% of them are just ADU, a very few of them are adding a JADU to the units for some reason. I mean, it needs to be attached. It needs to be part of the main dwelling. A lot of times you have to be it’s an attached garage, it turns into a JADU. But yeah, not that many surprisingly.
Avedis Nalbandian  I think what’s scaring them is the covenant requirements to be locked into one of those three units. The beauty of having it just be a detached ADU and not being locked in with that covenant agreement. It gives people the freedom to say Hey, okay, I’m gonna go buy another property and do the same thing on it. But once they lock in with that junior ADU, and they’re set to live in one of the three, it it puts a little bit of resistance into them.
Joey Romero  So, Aaron, can I ask really quick? Has there been any, like niches like around schools, like hey, I’m gonna build something ADU and put some college students in or, you know, closer to the beach? I’m gonna build an ADU and, you know, do a vacation rental, you know, stuff like that.
Avedis Nalbandian  Yeah, definitely. A lot of people are doing it. We’ve had people that are pretty much doing it near like CSUN area because you’re getting a lot of because dorms are so expensive. You’re probably paying what about six, maybe 5, $6000 with your tuition to get a dorm room versus you putting it out for a little ADU. So, it makes sense for people to do it because people are going to rent it out. And we’re seeing it a lot throughout colleges like you mentioned.
Aaron Norris  Yeah, you know, I’ve seen about the short term rental laws. If you aren’t owner occupant and you live on the property it’s not so stringent, is it?
Avedis Nalbandian  No, honestly I’ve had clients say that they’ve been using Airbnb for their units I try finding some specifics on it I think like, like you said it’s basically a little bit more lenient whatever their home occupant.
Aaron Norris  Yeah for real estate investors to explore the 30 plus day or the Co- living space but let’s get back to investors a little bit you guys also do, is it multifamily that you’re doing ADU’s on?
Avedis Nalbandian  Yeah, yeah we get we get a lot of multifamily people who are interested they have all this little backyard space in the area and they want to build detached ADU or they want to convert existing carports on the at the base of the apartment so different things like that. Yeah.
Aaron Norris  Yeah the end last time I was watching you convert the under parking because that’s not considered structurally sound during an earthquake. So, is there any money left for that? I know at one point the city was helping people with I don’t know if it was loans or grants but they were helping old building owners with the under parking take care of that.
Avedis Nalbandian  I haven’t dealt with that yet. I’m not sure as far as what kind of funding there is for it but yeah, a lot of people are coming in and interested in converting those spaces for sure.
Aaron Norris  They’re getting specific size that’s working out really well like duplex triplex fourplex.
Avedis Nalbandian  Honestly, we we actually did one right now, it had about nine or 10 units in that property. And basically, the owner had an 11th unit that at the time, he tried converting into a legal unit, but I guess it because of density purposes. It didn’t allow for that extra unit to be there. But now years down, the line ADU has come into play and he basically converted that unit. Now it’s an ADU. So, we’re doing it on a scale of like 10 units. We’ve done it on duplexes, we’ve done it on triplex, it varies, but more more often, that’s usually duplex lots. Because I think not a lot of people know about it. Like you said.
Aaron Norris  I love that. So, duplex like you can have a duplex and 2 ADU’s. That’s a lot of extra units.
Avedis Nalbandian  Yeah.
Aaron Norris  A lot of new units like that. Rents. What are some of these 800 square foot LA ADU’s going for?
Shara Surabi  You know, they’re not either because these are for homeowners. We don’t rent them out ourselves. I don’t know exactly what they run for. I was recently looking for studio size, four, 500 square foot ADU. They were going for 1800 to 2000. And I was looking for one bedrooms and they were closer to 2500. I was just looking on Zillow actually last week, just, just, just scanning over someM some rental properties. One of my friends wants to have wants to have a secondary home and he lives in Las Vegas. He wants to come here with his family once in awhile. He’s like, hey, find me an adu just to live in when I’m there, and I can maybe rent it out when I’m up. So, that’s what I was looking around for studios in one bedrooms and studios four or 500 square feet around 2000. And maybe the one bedrooms are going for around 2500 believe it or not. I mean, a lot of times it’s a detached unit. They don’t have neighbors that are attached to the attached wall. It’s a brand new house a lot of times with brand new appliances. So, they like that.
Aaron Norris  Is happening. Can you tell in certain areas? Like is it first time buyers that are doing these are these in Beverly Hills? Or is it a mix? Is that all over the place? There’s no primary reason?
Avedis Nalbandian  I think, I think, yeah, I kind of got your question. Another, another thing that we’re actually seeing is people that are taking over houses from their parents when they pass and they got they gotta pass on to them. They can’t afford the rent. So, the alternative solution is basically developing another form of income for that property to basically help pay that rent and cover the costs for whatever they got to do day to day. And then it’s also it’s just a mixture of things. First time homebuyers are getting into it. It’s just with the construction cost of things now. I feel like it’s something that can possibly scare new homebuyers. Especially because with today’s rates, they’re paying that much already for a house and then on top of it all they’re getting construction all done, but there is a variation.
Shara Surabi  Yeah, I will say a majority of our clients have lived in the house for a little while and they have, they have some equity that they can use to, to pull out to build, to build the idea.
Aaron Norris  What do you mean everybody got 20% equity just for breathing last year? It went up a lot. What is it costing these days since you’re mostly doing stick built or conversions of a garage? Let’s let’s go through some of the costs.
Ben Benavides  Yeah, yeah, the costs have changed since we started. And so right now the range is say between 250 to 300 square foot for a detached ADU and that’s, that’s kind of the range, there’s going to be variables that primarily are the finishes inside because the structure is going to be pretty much the same. The quality is always you know, the the top notch stick build construction, but the the interior, that’s where the cost can go up or down depending on the selection of finishes, the flooring, the cabinets, the countertops, the fixtures, whether it’s gotten bogged in ceilings or high ceilings, you know, a few of those different issues will affect the cost.
Shara Surabi  Also, it also depends on the size of the unit, like we have a 280 square foot studio that we just got approved in Glendale. And we’re coming in at 350 or three or maybe a little more even per square foot, but it’s because such a small unit, it still needs the trenching it still needs a kitchen, it still has a bathroom, it’s all the expensive components are still part of the small unit. So, that brings the cost of per square foot at least, so.
Aaron Norris  That’s how they’re so expensive. You’re cramming the most expensive square footage and it’s really small space.
Shara Surabi  Right.
Aaron Norris  So, appraisers that’s why we were angry at first at appraisers. They were trying to look at the primary and be like, Okay, well the ADU in this and told there’s 3000 square feet. Let’s give him an average square footage. And you don’t want that because the ADU square footage is by far a lot more expensive. So, interesting. And what we learned with them talking about the loan conversations that if maybe you guys can share a little bit more on this, she said that if you’re able to show them the cost of the ADU, it’s, it’s not difficult to just give them the budget and they’re giving you the value of what a cost to build.
Shara Surabi  It, that’s kind of what we’re seeing. Yes. A lot of times whatever its cost is pretty much what they get. It’s not the case every time. But a lot of times that’s what’s starting to happen. That’s what we’re seeing.
Aaron Norris  So, 200,000 to 240k for like an 800 square foot. I don’t know anywhere in California where you can buy something for an 800 square foot house for 200 grand to be honest with you.
Avedis Nalbandian  I think a condo for that price.
Aaron Norris  Yeah, this law is is very special and very unique in that it what it’s allowed to do, and I get a chance to talk to electeds very often I’m going to go down and meet with the guy who wrote AB 1771. In about a week and I want to show him this data like you’re looking at it wrong. You need the private sector you want ADU, just let us do our job. But it’s been very interesting to see that owner occupants are leading the charge. Now, I think early on, we were all excited with companies like Boxabl and 3d printing and technology meeting the moment. And I’ve heard very mixed reviews. They’re just really long timelines for manufactured housing. 3d printed technology is just still not there yet. You’ve got companies like Boxabl. But at the end of the day, every time I talk to somebody, interview somebody about this, we’re still talking about stick build. Is that what you guys are seeing right now?
Shara Surabi  Yes, you know, when I started this business, I call it ADU Resource Center. And I wanted to have a prefab company to partner up with so I could have all the services but I haven’t been able to find the right company to work with, a lot of times their cost and the cost to build a prefab unit lot of times ends up costing more than stick build. And a lot of these factories are backed up. So, it takes a year, sometimes two years to actually get a unit delivered. So, we haven’t been able to partner up with the right company yet. So, that’s why we’re sticking to stick build for now until, until that happens.
Aaron Norris  Well, yeah, you can’t wait for two years for especially if you’re they haven’t been around long enough to test the quality you, stick build is stick build. It’s just a little bit easier to understand, I guess, too. And the match the primar. Are you doing that quite a bit matching the primary to the ADU so it looks really good together?
Avedis Nalbandian  Yeah, that’s that’s a common thing that’s coming up. Some cities don’t really push it. But cities like Glendale require it 100% of the way they won’t take anything else. But yeah, I think it’s one of the more common things and one of the issues that I’m, I don’t know if they’ve added it in or later. But the thing with prefab it’s made so that it’s kind of like a process where they speed up things because it’s already kind of cookie cutter pieces, I would assume. So, one thing that I could see being an issue is it’s less customizable, it’s less personal, for something that you’re gonna be placing in your backyard. Not to be biased obviously, because we do, we do stick build with our company, but that’s the personal thing I would see if I was a homeowner and I was gonna place an ADU in my backyard. I would want to stick built because it’s more personalizable and I could pick and choose every component in that versus being limited to my choices of something that’s prefabricated.
Aaron Norris  Yeah, you’re right. It’s built in a factory. It doesn’t mean that’s necessarily that the quality has to suffer, but they are built for scale. So, there’s a lot less for now. And with 3d printed, you know, I think Rancho Mirage, Mighty Building is building their first community in Rancho Mirage, and you’ve got Icon which is building their first community in Austin. I think it’s with Luminar. And I liked the technology. The problem is that well, Shara you, I was just thinking about that you and I were in Redondo West, when we got to see them put up walls in one day. I see that every day, needs to come out of a really expensive printer. But it’s not printing the bathroom or the kitchen. Like all that finished work. We’re still having to deal with all the other stuff that has to go into a house. So, we’re just not there yet.
Shara Surabi  Maybe, maybe you can love a little bit of on. A lot of people when they think of prefabricated units, they think it’s a super fast process. They come on site a couple of weeks later, they’re out and that’s it. But that’s, that’s really not the case.
Ben Benavides  Yeah, and actually in Southern California, not every city allows the manufactured homes. So, you know, we have that conversation because I have had that question asked. And of course we, we checked with the city and there’s some cities that don’t allow it, you have to do a stick build.
Aaron Norris  I didn’t even know that they’re even allowed to do that, when it comes to ADU anyway.
Avedis Nalbandian  Is this for the creating process, Ben? Is that, is that the reason?
Ben Benavides  I know it’s, It’s, it’s from the regional planning. Is, they, it’s kind of like I have, I have a well, I used to have a Class A Motorhome. And I used to go to RV parks. And there’s some RV parks that don’t allow a motorhome in there if it’s over 10 years old, coming out. Yeah, that was it’s interesting. But so I think it’s kind of the same concept. There’s there’s some cities that have city ordinances that supersede any, you know, county or state ordinances. In fact, there’s one project that we started in Santa Clarita, you know, ADU’s are, you were supposed to have up to 1200 square feet in the size of an ADU. And in this particular neighborhood in Santa Clarita, they limited it to 1000 square feet, that’s the largest they could have. So, that’s what we’re doing they were a little disappointed but we designed a really nice unit for him.
Aaron Norris  Interesting to see how they did that because in order to do that, they would have to prove safety issue utility issues, something would have happened to be going on unless somebody is going to challenge them at the state level but interesting I didn’t know that goes to show you just can’t assume that you’re going to be able to build whatever you want. That’s, that’s important.
Ben Benavides  The, my experience with manufactured homes though to touch on that a little bit is because I have installed those there’s, there’s a few elements that I think aren’t considered when people are looking at those because the, the attractive part is the cost of you know, the manufactured house. The pieces, the pieces of the puzzle to get it from the factory to your house. There’s more pieces to that. So, the interact the one I did after I installed it, you know, the customer says to me, okay, so now this is installed, I didn’t really like it the way I saw it. So, I want to remodel my bathroom. So, the point is, is you know, one of the big differences between an ADU and a manufactured home is our ADU’s, like I said before, they’re custom built, custom designed, you can wait you can wait, but you can make ADU compliant, which is what we do a lot of you know the walk in showers, the bigger showers, the bigger bathrooms. And you can make the kitchen bigger the bedrooms smaller, they just spend less time there. So, we customize it to the client’s needs, which is a real advantage over a manufactured home that you don’t get. And then of course, the added cost of manufactured homes is going to be the transportation.
Aaron Norris  Especially now with gas prices.
Ben Benavides  Exactly. But for me the worst part about that, about that process is you know, they put together everything at the factory and then they put it on the trailer and it goes bouncing down the freeway for four hours. So, you don’t know what gets loose or what happens and…
Aaron Norris  Is this commentary on LA’s awesome roads?
Ben Benavides  Oh yeah, don’t get me started on that. …red truck and there’s some roads on the 118 all through Simi Valley you get a massage as you’re driving because you’re bouncing…
Aaron Norris  I have heard those that this is actually an issue with manufactured homes and I’m like oh in California that is definitely going to be an issue. Oh man. Well, that’s you know, it’s important to hear people need to understand that just because you can doesn’t mean you should and just ‘cos you think you can doesn’t mean you’re ever going to be able to do so. Oh…
Ben Benavides  I mean, they do put it all together, you know. So, that those are the other costs. In most in a lot of cases, they have to hire a crane to hoist it up and over. And then there’s the foundation, that’s not part of the, you know, additional cost of the house has to get done separately separate permits. And then you know, the house comes in two pieces most of the time, then you have to marry it together, like, like they say, and I know I’ve done so you know, you have to patch the floor, the walls, the roof and repaint and there’s a few extra things that has to get done. I mean, when it’s all said and done, it looks good. But the price when you add all those costs together, it actually I’ve had some people tell me it actually costs more than the bids that we’re providing for a stick build ADU.
Aaron Norris  Wow, what do you mean, I can go on Amazon and I see these little cabins that don’t have a bathroom or kitchen. They’re only $20,000.
Joey Romero  Go to the harbor, just get a container.
Aaron Norris  That’s yeah, right. Yeah. Are you getting questions about that? Things like containers and weird structures?
Ben Benavides  I’ve had one, one customer asked me about those. I didn’t even know they existed until he posed the question. And I did some research. Of course, the downside of that is the county where he wanted it was not going to allow it.
Aaron Norris  Yeah, they don’t they don’t. With all the pesticides and stuff that typically are associated with them. That’s not, yeah, it’s not trying to think of, I had something really interesting in my head that I was going to ask now. I just, it escaped me. And well.
Joey Romero  Oh, I can rescue you with my trick question.
Aaron Norris  Do it.
Joey Romero  Shara have you ever been to a backyard and seen like a really big tree and say, you know, I could put an ADU on that?
Aaron Norris  Treehouses are the number one experience that’s expanding for short term rental. So, I see…
Shara Surabi  Tree ADU? Tree-DU.
Aaron Norris  Tree-DU.
Shara Surabi  To get it approved, why not?
Aaron Norris  Oh, no, don’t get the ideas. My brain works on that night.
Avedis Nalbandian  Trees are a little bit of a pain to deal with, especially whenever you start seeing oak trees coming into play. And then…
Aaron Norris  You specifically said that, why oak trees?
Avedis Nalbandian  It’s the more common one we’re seeing here in LA actually. But the one thing I was, I was actually talking to my arborist and he said that it’s, he’s seen it go both ways. But it more often leads towards the homeowner, where he’s saying you as a homeowner, you have homeowner rights, and one of the homeowner rights is to be able to place an ADU would fall into that category, you could technically argue that like, Hey, me as a homeowner be owning this property, I have the ability to place this ADU in the back, but that tree is really restricting me from doing it. So, they’ve he said that he’s seen them make exceptions with that. And that be the argument that gets them to make that leap over to allowing you to remove that oak tree. But then again, you have to now come back and plant two or three new additional trees, given the fact that it’s obviously cheaper than getting a penalty for removing an oak tree illegally. But…
Shara Surabi  It’s not only Glenda ones, right?
Joey Romero  Oak trees are like turtles in Florida, man.
Shara Surabi  Right.
Ben Benavides  Yeah, they’re protected. They’re protected in Southern California. The oak trees are, especially in LA County.
Aaron Norris  I’m just thinking you could take the wood from the oak tree to build the ADU . What a great story.
Joey Romero  Still there,
Avedis Nalbandian  There you go. But yeah, we did one in Glendale to have like three or four oak trees on that property. And it was just restricting the homeowner completely even getting an ADU anywhere on this property. Now, given if you have an empty side of your loft, that it’s clear and open area that you could build in, they’re going to be like, no go and build it over there. But if it’s and if it’s for aesthetic purposes, obviously they don’t remove it. But when it comes to a point of where it’s restricting you as a homeowner to build it on your property, it’s something that we’re seeing quite often that you’re allowed to kind of counter the city and say hey, I’m going to remove it I’m gonna plant you new oak trees elsewhere.
Joey Romero  Aaron as they develop South Corona and you know, brought in everything had those logos and all that as they expanded the roads there, they had to make the, make the median wide enough to keep a ton of those oak trees.
Aaron Norris  Well. Let’s end on neighbors. Like, you know, this bill has been around a long time now. I’m still surprised when electeds will be like ‘What do I tell you know, my constituents and all that you don’t have control?’ And you haven’t had for several years? Are you having to deal with neighbors who are upset about these in the, in the backyard?
Avedis Nalbandian  I haven’t personally. The thing is, it’s because like, like we were going back and forth talking about it. It’s certain seats restricted and I feel like those are the areas that you usually would let me go back to that they restrict you going up two stories for example, like Gelndale everything is restricted down to one storey. So, that area kind of keeps us consistency. So, not a lot of people are complaining because usually it’s either a garage and converting, or it’s within the height of the garage that would have been attached to the backyard. And then a lot of other cities, I mean, you’re within your rights as a homeowner. So, a lot of people, even if they do complain, they really can’t do much about it as far as you building it. One other thing that we’re seeing is, people are realizing a lot of people actually have seen on two projects that we’ve done, that their neighboring properties have built onto their property. So, this becomes an area where it’s like, hey, you know, I’ll let you stay on my property if you just keep your mouth shut about me building my ADU you two storeys high and, and building on the rear view. So, another one was when we saw a client, who built by the neighbor’s property built four feet into there, so along the whole depth of the property. So, it kind of opens doors for that to readjust all this. So, going with neighbors, it’s interesting, there’s different cards that have been played. But realistically, going back to it, there’s not much they could do unless you’re within some sort of like gated community or something.
Shara Surabi  You know, we get a lot of complaints on our ads. You know, I will post ads on Google and Facebook and Instagram. We see a lot of ugly comments about it. But actual complaints. No, we haven’t had many.
Avedis Nalbandian  Yeah.
Ben Benavides  Actually the other, the other side of that, the other side of that coin, which is good is the ones that like to keep up with the Joneses. Oh, so you’re putting one up well, I’m gonna do one, too.
Aaron Norris Â
We’re converting everybody to the dark side, everybody’s…landlord, stop it, they’re gonna become more real estate friendly. I love it. It’s almost…
Avedis Nalbandian  Not to the point where if you’re not doing it, it’s almost weird to not. You’re the weird but you’re the oddball out. That’s not…
Aaron Norris  Everybody’s doing it. Yeah, right. Let’s, let’s end with major mistakes you’ve seen funny stories, just for you shake your head and go, Why? Because I don’t know, I just I need a laugh.
Avedis Nalbandian  I mean, a lot of times, although with some it, a lot of times people are just, I guess concerned with the price of going with a professional company that knows what they’re doing. There’s a lot of components that fall into it. Like, we’re dealing with structural architectural model 24. We’re doing the LID plans where it’s applicable. And then we’re working with contractors hand in hand from the get go to make sure we’re delivering the client like an A plus grade ADU. But a lot of times people will just go with some random Joe that’s charging them like 2000 for a full set of plans. And they’re like, oh, yeah, this guy’s charging me like a third of your price. Why? Why should I go with you in that case, and then they end up calling us and paying double the fees, and then paying whatever they paid that guy and then something on top of it for us to go through and fix it. And it just becomes a whole mess that we got to deal with. So, it’s just like, dealing with clients like that pretty much or dealing with clients that tried to do the conversion illegally. And they did something so far, that it’s a pain to bring back from so.
Aaron Norris  I was, under the categories. ‘I know a guy.’
Ben Benavides  I know that.
Aaron Norris  I watch HGTV every day, so I’m pretty much professional. Okay, got ya. Shara, any, any fun stories?
Shara Surabi  Fun stories? I can’t think of any you know, I’m not on the field so much is these guys that are mainly talking to the homeowners.
Ben Benavides  Yeah, no, you know, I was right. I mean, there’s that’s probably the most common thing is that, you know, people, I, the best ones are people Oh, I can do this myself. I found a draftsman and they and they try it. They get a you know, a substandard set of drawings. They take it to the city, you know, and after three months of frustration, then they come to us and here take it. Can you get this done for us?
Aaron Norris  Yeah, that’s, you know…
Ben Benavides  That’s very common.
Aaron Norris  Oh, all right, guys. Well, I really appreciate your time. This has been, I think, a really important conversation. If they want to find out more information about ADU Resource Center, where should they go?
Shara Surabi  Yeah, they can email us at info@aduresourcecenter.com. Our website is ADUresourcecenter.com. And I’ll just give you my phone number 818-813-1619 they could call me directly.
Aaron Norris  All right, we’ll make sure to post it up on the show notes and link to all the stuff and I really appreciate your time guys.
Shara Surabi  Hey, thanks so much Aaron. Bye bye.
Aaron Norris  Easy-peasy. Told you.
Narrator  For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with The Norris Group, check out thenorrisgroup.com. For information on passive investing with trust deeds, visit tngtrustdeeds.com.
Aaron Norris  The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.