Foreclosures on the way? Daren Blomquist of Auction.com with Bruce Norris #705

Daren is vice president of market economics at Auction.com. In this role, Blomquist analyzes and forecasts complex macro and micro economic data trends within the marketplace and industry to provide value to both buyers and sellers using the Auction.com platform.

Daren’s reports and analysis have been cited by thousands of media outlets — including all the major news networks and leading publications such as The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times and USA TODAY. Daren has been quoted in hundreds of publications and has appeared on many national network broadcasts, including CBS, ABC, CNN, CNBC, FOX Business and Bloomberg.

Bruce and Daren will discuss whether foreclosures are coming and how Covid-19 has affected the process.  What goes into the auction.com formulas when it comes to projections.  Key measures of unemployment and tap able equity.

See below for full video and resources.

Episode Highlights

• Will we see a wave of foreclosures?
• What are the leading foreclosure indicators?
• What lasting COVID-19 policies will have an effect of forclosures?
• What states are the migration winners and losers?
• Unemployment and tap able equity?
• New normal?

Episode Notes

Narrator This is the Norris group’s real estate investor radio show the award winning show dedicated to thought leaders shaping the real estate industry and local experts revealing their insider tips to succeed in an ever changing real estate market hosted by author, investor and hard money lender. Bruce Norris.

Bruce Norris I thank you for joining us. My name is Bruce Norris and today our special guest is Darren Blomquist. Darren is vice president of market economics at auction.com in this role, Darren analyzes and forecasts complex macro and micro economic data trends within the marketplace and industry to provide value to both buyers and sellers using the auction.com platform. He previously served as vice president at Attomdata solutions where he was widely recognized as an authority in the housing and mortgage industries. Darren’s reports and analysis have been cited by thousands of media outlets including all the major news networks and leading publications such as the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times and USA Today. Darren has been quoted in hundreds of publications and appeared in many national network broadcasts including CBS, ABC, CNN, CNBC, Fox Business and Bloomberg. So Darren, we welcome you to our show.

Daren Blomquist  Yes. Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Bruce Norris  This is not a planned question. But I was just curious, because I’m going to compliment the company that you’re at. Have you ever attended a live auction?

Daren Blomquist  I absolutely have. Yeah,

Bruce Norris It’s not easy to pull one off to have auction calm, you know, they they weren’t around in the 70s and 80s and 90s. When they stepped in and dominated so quickly, I was really shocked because it’s not easy to pull off a live auction. And that was really prior to, you know, all the online changes and everything. So it was a pretty major transition, because, you know, I used to attend all those auctions. And as a matter of fact, we actually had thought I could see foreclosures were going to explode and I thought okay, I think We could start an auction company. So we held an auction with 15 houses, I would say my staff and I worked harder in a 30 day period than we’ve ever worked in our life. And we kind of, you know, we felt like we knew what we were doing. We sold one of those houses out of about 15. And I was never more proud of the effort. I remember sitting there with my sons, Aaron and Greg, and who also worked their butt off. They were sad. I said, Don’t be sad. We work so hard. We were able to say we do not know this business well enough to do it saved. Yeah, that saves a lot of time.

Daren Blomquist  I have. Yeah, I observed the same thing. When I was over at Attom. You know, we were involved in tracking data in the foreclosure market. We weren’t involved in the actual transaction, but I did at that point prior to auction calm, really getting involved in the space much at least in the foreclosure auctions space. I attended an auction I think in the Orange County Courthouse or at the LA County Courthouse when the two over in Norwalk It was hard to even find the the auction because it was just kind of a circle of of guys standing around and one guy with a computer and then a few years later went to auction calm was in running many of the auctions across country I went back and observed and it was a completely different environment they you know, they set up the auction in a hotel ballroom I’m sure you’ve seen this, you know, they have big screens up with the photos of homes, which is crazy. You actually at least to the outside of the home.

Bruce Norris  Yeah.

Daren Blomquist  And as much information as possible about those properties and you know, professional auctioneer out there, and yet that so that impressed me from afar that they had really revolutionized change the way those were done. And that was part of the appeal coming over here.

Bruce Norris Yeah, now you’re talking specifically about the end process of the foreclosure process. Literally the trustee sale. Yeah, that was an insider’s game. Like you say if you went Any particular county on any particular location? Six to 10 people that was about it,

Daren Blomquist  Right.

Bruce Norris  And now it’s so it made it much more competitive. And that’s if you’re, if you’re selling something that would that would be nice. The other thing that happens if you’re an auction company that has good success for both the buyer and the seller, there’s an accumulation of customer base. That’s astonishing. So when auction.com has a property up for sale in a city, what are the odds they don’t have any buying customers in that city? None. It’s zero. They have tons of people that are already looking for the next thing. And so that’s a big, that’s a big deal. It really is.

Daren Blomquist Yeah, I’m certainly the sellers. You know, we’re selling these homes on behalf of the banks and the sellers. And so the banks in the past consider the trustee sale is it was just something they had to do with a checkbox. Let’s get through the trustee sale so we can take back the property and then sell it, we brought the idea that it can be a good place to sell the property. If you do some marketing and and attract a broader pool of buyers to that environment, it can be a great place to sell and actually benefit you. You don’t have to take on the risk of holding that property. Let a local real estate investor take on that risk. And and so that’s that did change the perspective of the sellers on that trustee sale that it actually can be a marketplace.  And yeah, certainly we have millions of buyers across the country, potential buyers, and we’re, you know, we’re doing even more introducing more technology to level even more leveled the playing field at the trustee sale, which I understand that may not only be good news for the folks who are attending that because it does mean more competition. But generally speaking, we think more transparency in a marketplace is better and we’re introducing something called remote bid where you actually don’t have to attend the auction in person, which is one of the big hurdles and you can do it from your phone. There’s still the cash, all cash hurdle to overcome. But that’s something we’re working on. Of course, the challenge we have now and we can talk about this too. Maybe it’s a good segue into the there’s not very many foreclosure auctions happening right now, because of the moratorium,

Bruce Norris it’s a good point is to think about, normally auction companies. And this was also interesting about auction.com, they always found the niche. So they long ago they did the land tax sale auctions, and then when they’re really bad times, like 2008, and nine, and so forth, you’re going to end up with either tons of trustee sales or you’re going to end up with tons of reo auctions by the end of 2019. You could count all the foreclosures on you know, two hands basically there wasn’t a lot. So to survive during really good times. You know, you really have to think about your business model, but what’s really interesting You know, like you I pay, I pay attention to charts. We’re in uncharted territory. I’m looking at what’s next is okay. Usually you go backwards and say, Okay, well, what happened before in similar setup? Well, there, there really isn’t a similar chart or timeframe to look at. So it’s just going to be really interesting about what’s next. So yeah, I’d love to i’d love your take about do you think there will be a big impact on foreclosures that occur? First of all?

Daren Blomquist  Well, there were, I guess the operative word there big when you talk about impact. It’s certainly when I look at these charts and you’re talking about this kind of uncharted territory when you see this Princeton see unemployment rate, which is kind of where we start when we’re trying to predict what’s going to happen with foreclosures, this unprecedent spike, you know, in a month’s time in unemployment rate to definitely above last recession levels and getting close to depression or levels. When I look at that, and some of the other charts, it’s hard to imagine that that is not going to have some impact on foreclosures because there is a tight correlation between unemployment rate and foreclosures historically, there, of course, a lot of differences this time around in the nature of how that unemployment came about. But it’s hard to imagine no impact.  So we’re, you know, one of the things I’m working on is is a long range forecasts of what we think is going to happen. And of course, nobody knows for sure. But we do see, you know, I don’t know what the word for it is. But we see an increase in volume of foreclosures for sure it’s going to be a delay, because of all the efforts made to prevent foreclosures. But that is, we do see that coming in might be the end of 2021 into 2022, even before we see that, but we do see that coming.

Bruce Norris  Okay, now you put it out there quite a ways. Now there’s some states that actually have a very lengthy foreclosure process. But I think what you’re saying is there’s going to be a big attempt and very little appetite to foreclose immediately on somebody that’s not making their payment due to the ramifications of the Coronavirus. So, which is a pretty sensible policy, I think.

Daren Blomquist Yes, absolutely. And, you know, we we would generally agree with this approach to the forbearance approach it’s been taken to give just because of the unprecedented nature of all of this, did give people who are impacted by the Coronavirus time to recover and not just making any, you know, not just immediately going into into foreclosure. And I think that’s, that is certainly something we see as a lesson learned from the last crisis. As you know, we one of the charts you looked at I know is the trustee sales and notices of default. And that was a leading indicator last time around that we were getting into trouble somehow. And we’re certainly not seeing that we’re seeing the linearity rate spikes. But that’s not translating into Notice of Defaults and notices of trustee sale because of this forbearance along with the foreclosure moratorium combined with the fact that this is an election year that’s going to continue that effort to prevent unnecessary foreclosures. And we think that’s a good thing.  Otherwise, you could see the ripple effects that that are that nobody wants to see. And he just let those properties go to foreclosure.

Bruce Norris  Right.

Daren Blomquist But the couple points I would make out, make it make and then I would love to hear what you think about this, too, because you have been looking, looking at this for longer than I have. But the couple reasons that we still see eventually there’s going to be an increase. And a wave of foreclosures is first of all, you know, you said at the end of 2019, you could count the number of foreclosures on their on your hands or whatever. But there was a very low level of foreclosures happen, but our business was actually growing because we were gaining market share and it was actually a pretty good volume of foreclosures that we were doing. Bringing About just looking at the numbers, make sure I get this right here, but 1500 properties to auction a week, just through our platform, and we’re nationwide. So there is volume. And but that’s virtually been cut off on our platform. It went from that 1500 a week to literally single digits are weak. I mean, which is crazy,

Bruce Norris  Right

Daren Blomquist  And so the point I would make there is there’s this kind of, you know, and I don’t want to sound callous when I say it, but there’s this kind of business as usual foreclosures that was happening, even in a great economy, and that with these moratoriums, those have largely been cut off, and those are foreclosures that are probably going to happen. Correct. But they’re just being kicked down the road. And so that alone is going to cause some kind of increase in foreclosures. But then on top of that, you do have there’s a percentage of people impacted by this Coronavirus who you is going to have a long term impact on and if you look at some of the unemployment numbers, certainly the temporary layoffs are the biggest percentage of that. And those are the ones that have come down recently. But the there’s different ways of looking at it, but the permanent job loss numbers are continuing to decline. And those are the people eventually, who would be at most at risk for foreclosure down the road. But yeah, I’d love to hear your thoughts on on, on how you see that playing out.

Bruce Norris  There are some mitigating factors in place it creates safety once the equity position this in place probably never been bigger. And I think the interest rates being so low, you know, you’ll have a chance maybe to refi it looks to me, like there’s going to be a lot of patience, about chasing the asset that’s not getting been not getting paid for, you know, on a monthly basis. And that could include, you know, state policies and moratoriums and you know who knows what so Here’s a good question for you, do you think you can, you can have price declines without a great increase in foreclosures? Because I haven’t ever seen that,

Daren Blomquist  Certainly with our model that when we’re looking forecasting out, unemployment as a big input, and then the other big input is equity Home Equity, as you mentioned, the cushioning factor that will when you look at the model it it pulls back what foreclosures would have otherwise been in in a less equity rich environment. And I think when we’ve seen home prices, all the charts I remember looking at when you do see that home price decline, and you see a rise in foreclosures come with that. And certainly that when we put into our model of price decline, along with the unemployment situation, the numbers are higher, not surprisingly, that we that we spit out then then when you don’t have that price decline, paired with the unemployment numbers.

Bruce Norris  The the only example that I lived through that I could relate to this was in Grand Junction, Colorado, when the oil shale companies left. Suddenly, this was probably in 83, or 84, in a booming area literally had 50% vacancy rate inside of six months, and prices declined. The inventory that I bought, I bought at 20 cents on former value. So that was an isolated incident that got created by unemployment basically, that’s what drove that. And every other chart, you know, cascaded down so that’s the one thing you know, I was, I’m still surprised at the number that they’re giving us for unemployed, the percentage of unemployed I when I do the math, I’m just looking at going. I just don’t know if I buy that. To me, it looks like it’s in the height. or something, but I, you know, just looking at how many claims of unemployment are still coming out. And then you have the end of the PPP program where and now round number two of the Coronavirus where you’re just closed in California restaurants and barbers and all that, again, you’re going to be there’s going to be a fair amount of those people that just say, well, that’s That’s it.

Daren Blomquist  That’s it, meaning

Bruce Norris  that you’re not going to go back into business. Right. Right. Yeah. There’s just going to be all over again,

Daren Blomquist  15:33I think I mean, the Bureau of Labor, Labor Statistics has acknowledged that there’s a, you know, kind of an error in their miscalculation. I think they call it a misclassification and their numbers that would make the unemployment rate much higher, closer to those high teens that you’re talking about, because they didn’t you know, they’re in uncharted territory as well. Right. And then they were misclassifying some folks who were away from work They usually assumed that was on vacation or just for maternity leave or something like that. But it’s actually those those people, they’re saying probably many of them should be included as as unemployed as well, and they weren’t.

Bruce Norris  So that’s kind of why I asked you about do you think we could have a price decline without a big rise in foreclosures? And I think what this is my take of, and I don’t know how long it can go on. But it seems like there’s really going to be an effort to say, okay, we’re not going to foreclose on people that can’t make their payments. So I don’t know what you have in place. Let’s say they take this forbearance and bring it out to however long it’s necessary. You know, what if it’s necessary for 18 months? Well, at a mortgage rate of under 3%, you know, you can stack that up the back end. They got pretty good at loan modifications. But if you don’t have massive foreclosures, it’s hard to imagine having a big decline in price which would be really really helpful. So that’s I wonder if that’s where the policies are going to leave if in fact, we really have Coronavirus number two and unemployment is really closer to, you know, Great Depression levels than a recovering recession?

Daren Blomquist  Yeah, I think certainly we see a lot of, you know, the political bias right now is toward giving people as much time as necessary. And certainly with the election that could swing more even more in that direction. Yeah. I mean, you could foresee that, you know, I don’t know, what’s the end end goal of that. The most extreme example, which it’s hard to imagine happening, but I suppose it could be that, okay, let’s just kind of like universal unemployment, universal mortgage payment, but we’ll pay for everybody’s mortgage, and you’re off the hook type of thing, I guess would be maybe the ultimate manifestation of that and I’m sure there would be some there’s got to be Some ripple effects and unintended consequences of that. I’m not sure what all of those would be at this point.

Bruce Norris  Yeah. And I

Daren Blomquist  Certainly on the lending industry,

Bruce Norris I’m kind of talking worst case scenario for sure open, it doesn’t get there. Do you see states that will be big losers as far as migration, and who were the big gainers?

Daren Blomquist That’s good that you asked that I was just looking at the migration data from the census. It was actually put out a couple of months ago, but and then looking overlain some of the census designation on our own data and public record data, sales data. And you’re already seeing in 2019, which is the census data from 2019. To pre pandemic, for sure, New York was the biggest loser in terms of net migration, with many of the counties in New York City at the top of that list, and then also California was the second biggest loser, followed by Illinois and many of the especially coastal counties, counties in California, losing population to net migration and I, when I look at the sales rate, which is an indication of what real estate investors are doing, or where they’re interested in property on our platform, you we see that it’s actually a reversal last year, the sales rate, which the sales rate is just the percentage of properties that are available at auction and actually sell that percentage was highest a year ago in zip codes that had that were designated by the censuses, as being in cities, but that’s the city sales rate has actually declined, especially for the online auctions that we do. And now we see this suburban sales rate has seen the biggest increase in sales, right.  So that tells me investors are most interested in now in properties in the suburbs versus the city and and that actually kind of piles on the the trend that was already happening because of taxes and weather and all the other things that were driving people out of California and out of New York and Illinois. And to places like the biggest gainers are no surprise, I’m sure to your you and your audience. But you know, Texas and Florida and California, or excuse me, Texas and Florida, in Arizona and North Carolina, that to me, the pandemic is going to accelerate those trends, but for different reasons, in a sense, because of some of the health issues associated with higher density housing, and and, of course, then the remote work capability that is much more widespread.

Bruce Norris  You know, one of the things that dawns on me once in a while, and now that we’re Riverside County, and we’ll California in general is just kind of relocked down industries is that when you have when you have a weekend, and your mind forgets for a moment that things are normal, you kind of go Okay, well, what do you want to do this weekend? You go down the list of stuff can’t go out the can’t go to a movie. Let’s turn on a ball game. Uh, Nope, can’t that’s not planned yet. And in the back of your mind, you just go, you know, round one, you maybe it was more acceptable because it was like, there’s there it is, it’s a two month window or a six week window will be good. Round two, I think is going to have more of a psychological impact than round one where people are going, Wow, is this the new normal, you know, and even families in schools like Joey just mentioned, and it’s just, you know, you think, Okay, well, well, at least the kids are going to go to school. Oh, well, No, they’re not. And you’re going some of the stuff you just go, I guess here’s why I’m bringing that up. When you start to feel like you don’t know the rules of engagement. You stop participating or you go to a safe zone. Does that makes sense?

Daren Blomquist  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, actually, I can definitely identify that with that my wife and I were just about that last night. Okay, you know, we’re kind of at this point where it seemed like I, you know, I thought, okay, Surely this is going to be over by the summer, at least by the end of the summer, and then the kids will be back in school and things will be back to normal, right? Doesn’t look like the path that we’re on right now. And, and so yeah, that then all of a sudden, you’re like, well, if things aren’t going to go back to normal, then I maybe could rethink everything. Right. Yeah. So yeah, I think that’s, that’s true. And we certainly in our circle of folks, and we’re in California, we were already seeing a lot of our friends leave just anecdotally but it feels like that is even accelerated. And these are people it’s kind of weird because there are people we haven’t seen in person since the pandemic started but we hear Oh, there are we see on Facebook or wherever that they’re moving to Idaho or they’re moving to Texas and it feels like that has that increased in becoming increased since the pandemic. So I think people are open to when your world gets so disrupted, you’re open to a lot more different options. And yeah, to your point, I think, you know, just in terms of economic implications, how you interact with the typical goods and services that you’re that you’re that you typically buy could could change as well.

Bruce Norris  I think the way the state’s, you know, have handled the pandemic two, is it sort of go you kind of go, Wow, I didn’t know they could. I didn’t know they could mandate that. I didn’t know they could make that decision without some type of vote or participation of the public. It’s just sort of like Proclamation. And that’s another thing when you just go Okay, wow, I didn’t know they could do that. I literally listed my residence for sale two days ago.  And I’ve already I’ve already bought a home in Florida that we’re going to move to now I’ve been gradually moving assets to Florida. I’m a big believer in Florida’s future because of the migration that they get and the way their population grows. So, as a as somebody who follows the statistics, I have looked at these charts for 30 years. And everyone everyone’s while you have an aha moment that you just go, I am so excited that I that I saw that so 100% of California’s population gain, so set aside migration for a moment. 100% of the net population gain for California is births over deaths. A natural increase 95% of Florida’s population gain is net migration and net immigration. It’s an adult ready to buy or rent something California there one day old. That’s a difference in future.

Daren Blomquist  Yeah, that’s a great point. Yeah, I love that.

Bruce Norris  And I had never seen that before I’d concentrated on immigration and migration and, and all of that. But when you actually look at the population gain, you go, Wow, that’s not an adult ready to participate for a long time.

Daren Blomquist  Right.

Bruce Norris  So when you the other thing is California’s got some obviously, it’s got some budget issues for future promises and stuff. But a very large percentage of taxes are paid by a very small percentage of occupants. And that is going to be one of the things that tilt policies, you know, when you start having people leave that are paying a lot of the bill. I mean, there’s still the bill to be paid in the promises. So they’re either going to have to raise taxes or they’re going to have to break promises. I mean, honestly, that’s, that’s kind of why I’m looking at going. I think maybe now is a good time.

Daren Blomquist  Yeah, maybe I need to follow you Bruce But

Bruce Norris A friend of mine, I literally had listed the house, I would say, less than an hour. A good friend of mine in the industry is you’re freaking people out. they’ve noticed your houses for sale. We just put it up for sale. Oh my god. So yeah, and I’ve obviously love living in California, and California is survivor and they you know, but I think you’re gonna, I think we’re gonna go through a rough patch. And I think you know, this is the other thing when you start thinking about what’s likely, I’m going to sell a house in Riverside that’s gone up a half a million dollars when I sell it. I don’t have a tax bill. That to me is astonishing. And I also think it’s going to be short lived. That’s, that’s, that’s a crazy thing to have in place. And when you’re searching for money if you’re the US government or the California government, I think that’s one of the things that’s going to go and I thought I don’t want that to go For me anyway.

Daren Blomquist  Let me take advantage of that. That’s right. Yeah, that that is a crazy thing. And I think a lot. But what’s also crazy is how, how hot the California market seems to be. And I would suspect that your house if it follows the pattern of what what I’m hearing, and what I’m seeing is going to sell very quickly.

Bruce Norris  Yeah. I mean, it’s not an inexpensive house, but it was listed for a day and we had a showing last night in Florida. I can tell you, we can’t we can’t keep anything. So we’re building homes in Florida. And it’s very common for them to go pending in a day. And then we have 10 buyers that wanted it and they asked, okay, well, where’s your next one? So, I mean, literally, they’re driving to something that’s the shell going, you know, and that’s, you know, when that’s further along, we want to put it pending. So now part of that is that you had you kind of had a hole where people weren’t participating. So sales volume went down to well, you know, probably I don’t know the exact number 30% of normal and now you, you’re kind of playing catch up. But you also had an extraordinary amount of people pull their listings, right, and just go to the sidelines. So it’s an interesting combination that we probably in California will play catch up for the rest of the year. And I don’t know that there’ll be big price impacts on California because of that.

Daren Blomquist  Yeah, you have you have this period. And I do think that in some ways, a little bit of a calm before the storm, and it might take this storm a while to arrive. But we’re in this period where things are you look at a lot of housing market metrics, and they look very good in fact, better than than ever, in some cases and But yeah, I think there is this this catch up happening with the imbalance, the the supply and demand imbalance coming rewriting itself. And then yeah, the whole foreclosure issue that we talked about that is going to have some of those are going to have to hit Eventually, I mean, maybe not as big of a way. Many of the people who are, are in forbearance will never go into foreclosure. And we’re suspecting that but that is that is going to hit. So remove a little bit of a Pollyanna moment right now, I think before things, and the housing market said start to, to look a little worse.

Bruce Norris Yeah. to long term trends. I’m curious on your opinion of this mortgage rates start with a two. That’s a slightly unusual, as in, maybe never. So do you think that will cause people to stay in place for much longer time? So I’ve reified my house at two and a half? I am going nowhere.

Daren Blomquist Yeah, I think, you know, we were already seen that trend and homeownership 10 years being longer and continuing to link and I think that would, I would suspect that would push that further. You know, why should I move now? I said, Yeah, I will. If I could refi now I could it could motivate, I think some people to move up or change residences in order to take advantage of those low interest rates on a purchase. But that generally speaking, I think that’s the primary motivation there is to to stay put if you can get that.

Bruce Norris  The other thing is, okay, so you’re, let’s say, you’re a lender. It’s kind of funny, I probably spoke in front of a lending group, and I told them, you’re gonna end up with a 2% mortgage rate. And, well, Carrie Pierce is the guy that I’ve, I’ve used for four years, whenever I do any of that stuff. The lender, he actually had to switch jobs because the lender that he worked for for years just left the market because they thought the refi business was dead, because that represented over 50% of their business, so he literally closed their doors. So what’s going to be really interesting at some point, you’re going to have the refi business, literally do a decade worth of business and be done this year. And that’ll The interesting in the ramifications of employment that’s necessary in that industry.

Daren Blomquist  So you’re saying, I mean, there’s there’s a certain point where it can’t go any lower. And so once we hit that, and everybody’s, most people have refiled, then the business is gonna dry up very quickly.

Bruce Norris  Yeah, I mean, think about, you know, when I first I had almost a free and clear house that I refi’d to becoming a real estate investor in 1981. So not good timing. I refi’d at 17 and a half. So ever since then, there’s been an ability to refi if you pick and choose your spots, at a lesser and lesser rate, I refi’d once at 12. I thought that was so exciting from 17 and a half, that was great. And then, you know, gradually you pay under 10. And people who thought they would never go under 10 or shocked, and now it’s under three. So yeah, at some point, you would think in the future we’ll have interest rates that are more normalized and it’ll be interesting to see the industry cope with that. Because it literally will mean half of your businesses and coming back, you’ll use it up in advance, sort of like builders in 2004 and five are building crazy amounts of homes because they were being bought by people that typically wouldn’t qualify or investors. And then there was a big hole. It’s like, Oh my gosh, we pre built all these homes will will have replied a decade towards a refi’s in a year.

Daren Blomquist Yeah, that’s that’s a really interesting way to think of it. And it’s crazy that I think I was at one of your I did hear you predicted 2% mortgage rates. I was probably over over a year ago, when I first seen the speech. So yeah, you saw that coming?

Bruce Norris  Yeah. We said, we said it about three years ago, and every I’ve trust me. I’ve been on 2017 judges put up and so yeah, I’ve gotten a few calls. Where’s that? Where’s that? 2% mortgage rate. So I’m a real happy guy showed up.

Daren Blomquist  Yes, yeah. I just got it on my house. So I’m happy about that, too.

Bruce Norris  Yeah. It’s amazing. Dare we have run out of time? I wish you the best and auction.com will land in the right square. They’re very famous for picking what’s next.

Daren Blomquist  Yeah, we’re excited about that. We’re looking. We’re looking for that as well. So thank you for those words. And thank you for inviting me to be on. It’s great to be here.

Bruce Norris My pleasure, Darren, let’s keep in touch.

Narrator  For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with the Norris group, check out thenorrisgroup.com for more information on passive investing with trust deeds, visit TNGtrustdeeds.com. The Norris group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE license 01219911. Florida mortgage lender license 1577 and NMLS license 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go to thenorrisgroup.com and click the hard money tab

For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with the Norris group, check out thenorrisgroup.com for more information on passive investing with trust deeds, visit TNGtrustdeeds.com. The Norris group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE license 01219911. Florida mortgage lender license 1577 and NMLS license 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go to thenorrisgroup.com and click the hard money tab.

The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669.  For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.

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