COVID-19: Property Management, Tenants, and Landlords With Matthew Tandy #695

This week’s radio show and video guest is Matthew Tandy of Formatic Property Management.  Matt is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Formatic Property Management, Inc. As CEO, he oversees all day to day processes and guides the long term vision. He is always seeking new and innovative ways to improve the rental ownership experience for property owners, continuing his commitment to providing professional, accountable, and reliable services.  Due to his extensive experience in rentals throughout the country and deep knowledge of real estate investments, Matt is a frequently requested speaker at investor and rental industry seminars and trade groups.  See below for full video and resources.  

Episode Highlights

• What kinds of properties does he work with?
• As a property manager, has he experienced any difference in people being able to pay in May compared to April?
• How are the different counties dealing with this pandemic?
• What does the Heroes Act cover?
• How difficult has it been renting properties in the last couple of months?
• Are more people making the choice to leave cities like Los Angeles because of the pandemic?
• What is the new split roll property tax that is being discussed, and does it cover apartment buildings?

Episode Notes

Aaron Norris: Hey everybody, it’s Aaron Norris with the Norris Group. Today, we are here with Matt Tandy of Formatic Property Management. He is very involved in the National Association of Residential Property Managers as president of the Long Beach Orange County chapter. But he has a lot of insights into several other states and all over Southern California. I see him out and about at investor clubs talking about landlord issues. Especially now more than ever, it’s been very difficult to track all this stuff. So I really appreciate, Matt, you taking the time to join me today. It’s a Friday, May 15th, and it’s been really hard to track all the stuff that’s happening. And you work in three very different counties. So I can’t wait to catch up. So thank you for joining us. The kind of stuff that you do, just real quick, is it just single-family homes or is it also apartments?

Matthew Tandy: So we do a little of everything as long as it’s small residential. So we do a lot of single-family homes, both for what we call accidental landlords and professional investors. And then we also do a lot of duplexes, fourplexes, and small complexes. I have done up to five hundred plus flexes with the first management that I had. But that’s not our bread and butter.

Aaron Norris: Okay. Let’s just talk real quick, sort of month-to-month, you know, April compared to May. Has there been a big difference? Are you as a property manager experiencing people can’t pay or are they getting back on track because they’re getting federal money? What’s the overall sense of what’s going on?

Matthew Tandy: April was fine. Our rents are normally over 98 percent on-time rent payment across our entire portfolio for tenants that we place manage. And it dropped down to about 8 percent in April who hadn’t paid by the end of the 5th. But by the end of the month we were back at about 2 percent. Now, May has turned into about half a percentage point higher after the fifth, and we’re midway through the month. Most everybody has caught up again, so that’s not really surprising. We did expect that May would be the tougher month because people would be spending that first round of stimulus in April, and then we weren’t sure how May would go.

So we did have a few people move out. We had one tenant whose parents both died from COVID-19, and she was quarantined. But even she has caught up with her rent. One of the nice things to see is that there’s a lot of really good organizations out there. And I know that you work with various charities also, but lots of great charities and aid groups that have been really making themselves available to people who need help. Of course, we’ve been acting very passionately through this. And I don’t say that in some sort of legal or sells mumbo jumbo. It’s just when people call, we don’t make them feel bad. We’re not harassing them. We’re not making their lives difficult. We’re just asking, Hey, let’s figure this out. What’s going to makes most sense for you?

Aaron Norris: Yeah, it’s been really interesting to watch the state and localities fight with their own versions of how they’re going to manage this, and so many conversations at the county and now the state level of them going bankrupt. You know, people aren’t able to pay the property tax. And it’s very interesting to watch everybody come up with ideas on how to help tenants, but on the backs of the landlords, when even the state and the counties are not able to participate in the solution because they’re so upside down. I’m fascinated by that. I’ve said it on the show before. It really bothers me when the politicians come out with this great idea, but they don’t deal with it holistically and for everybody. They’re picking winners and losers, and now we find out it’s just because they don’t have any other choice.

Matthew Tandy: The reality is that landlords are the last thought. It seems that when it comes to legal matters, especially California, but in many other states, too, we’re seeing this spread everywhere, is that first you have to worry about the tenants. They make up a larger percentage of the voting block, and they’re who you’re going to appeal to. It just makes sense politically. So it is a problem. Governor Newsom just put out the other day a list of basically a 14-page playbook for real estate agents to do showings in health and safety and stuff like that. And to give you an idea now, this is about property management. But for landlords, it applies pretty much equally, because if you’re self-managing, you have to worry about these same kinds. Came up with a whole bunch of rules, then not one sentence, one word in the entire 14 pages, touches on rentals or property managers who are licensed real estate agents here. And so you have a bunch of rules that we’re bound by but can’t be adapted at all into our industry. So all the property managers are trying to figure that out. How do we do this? Well, for landlords, it also affects things such as how do you do self showings, make in-person showings. How do you do other health aspects? So it’s a tricky time. It’s not hopeless. It’s just always a puzzle trying to figure it out and you just have to make sure that you’re keeping an eye on the pieces that come in.

Aaron Norris: Yeah, I’ve been pretty lucky. A lot of my tenants, I had one actually yesterday, just ask for a rent decrease. In my opinion, I would rather give her a decrease. Lower her stress, she’s gonna keep paying, and not bury her in something I don’t think she’s ever going to be able to come back from. Sort of just like this overhang of…and I just I don’t want that for her either. The stress of having to feel like she’s got this bill that she’s got to pay. I’d rather work with her now, and we had a lovely exchange. I’m working with a property manager in the Inland Empire, and we had a good conversation. I told her my philosophy: if you can, you should. She was even willing to waiver. I told her I don’t need to do that. I can right now. I’m going to as long as I can. So let’s do this. And I think when you approach it as a partnership, it creates a partnership instead of the us versus them. And I’m glad to hear you’re sort of along the same vein.

She and I had a great conversation about 211. At the county and city level, really dig in. Find out what those resources are. So I was telling her the United Way out here in Riverside had a few really huge donors step up and write big checks and they’re just getting organized to be able to do grants for people who need it. So the majority of the calls at the 211 have always been housing-related. Needing help with rent and all of that kind of stuff. So they’re really set up for that. But what’s cool, when you call 211, they can help with things like food stamps. There’s a variety of things that they will be able to help with based on your geography. So if you’re in Palm Springs, it’s a different conversation than if you’re in Temecula. They can give you access to more resources, which is really cool. Again, I know I’ve said it a few times in the last month. Please understand 211 is a really cool resource and you might be able to get your tenants money that they didn’t even know existed because they didn’t know about the resource. A lot of these charities don’t have unlimited marketing dollars, so sometimes you just gotta plug in.

Aaron Norris: You work in the So-Cal market in a lot of different markets. Let’s talk about how the counties are dealing with it. L.A. being the most aggressive, tenant-friendly area and how they’re making it difficult for property managers, and in particular, what are they up to?

Matthew Tandy: First off, when people talk about California and anti-property rights are being crazy, most of California is actually pretty standard to the rest of the country I feel, having operated throughout the country. There’s a few differences, but not completely. But the areas where we get the bad reputation are pretty much always the city of Los Angeles, followed by the county of Los Angeles and also the San Francisco Bay Area. Things around there. So if you take those out of there, I think we’re pretty much a normal kind of state when it comes to a lot of stuff. But yet, if you look at Garcetti in L.A., he just came out, I think, yesterday or the day before saying that, hey, we may extend this for 18 months or something like that.

The reality is that when you have groups that feel that way, and I don’t know if it’s genuine or political, and it doesn’t matter in the end, right, is that they are pushing to keep things closed longer because for some reason they feel that is a right aspect. We’re not talking about doing just a 60-day extension. They really believe that they need to extend this for a long time. So currently a lot of the states, counties, and cities, when passing laws are basing it off of the state of emergency that has been declared statewide by Governor Newsom, and that is set to expire May 31st. Now, it should be noted, I fully expect that to be extended another 60 days. I think it would be highly unlikely otherwise. But maybe I’ll be surprised in a pleasant way. But if it doesn’t extend, then a lot of things, such as L.A. City, says that the tenant has the right to repay for up to twelve months after the expiration. So that means that anything the tenant doesn’t pay from middle of March through the end of May right now, but it could be the end of July, that you can’t kick the tenant out over that money. You can’t really aggressively pursue them or charge them any penalties or anything else until, we’re looking at June of 2021 at the absolute soonest. So that’s a huge burden, right.

Who do the politicians look to in these cases when they are looking for someone to talk real estate about with? Well, most of time they’re not going to work with the small mom and pop people. That’s not a big voting block. In fact, most of those mom and pop landlords do not live in the area of their properties, nor are they a significant source of tax revenue. So the only people they go to are some of these really big investment groups that usually own lots of mega commercial properties or mega apartment complexes, and they have cash outlays that can last many years. And so one of the proposals, for instance, is being proposed to help alleviate some of this things is that on the state level, they are talking about passing this tax credit law that says, all right, if you take all that rent that you’re owed and you just forgive it completely, then we will give you a tax credit equal to 100 percent of the rent forgiven that you can’t take until 2024 and is good for 10 years. Well, if you have the cash outlay to forgive six months of rent and you can use it as a future investment aspect, especially if you ever want to sell it or refinance, things like that, and that’s actually a pretty solid deal. But can a mom and pop landlord handle that now? No, they can’t.

Aaron Norris: 2024. Why wait so long?

Matthew Tandy: It’s just budget. States like New York and California are going bankrupt because of the extreme level they went. This isn’t me commenting about whether the extreme levels were the right choice or not. I’m just saying the reality of the economic costs is that we’re going bankrupt. And if they gave the tax credit to everybody right now, that would be a problem because those budget shortfalls will get even worse. So they’re hoping in a couple of years that will change. One thing about California tax people have asked is why hasn’t California delayed when taxes would be due, property taxes? Why haven’t they waived some of them. And the answer is that those funds are considered time of need funds. So as soon as they go in, they immediately go out. And where do they go to? They go to the schools, fire departments, police departments, things like that. So they can’t really not fund that because that’s how they get funded. And so, yes, waiving that would be problematic right now.

Aaron Norris: Yeah. This week we found out the Democrats are working on the Heroes Act, dead on arrival according to Republicans. I’m just always disappointed when I see plans coming from either party. The way that we’re set up, we know that that’s not going to work. Can you just work together to release something. Leadership. Wouldn’t that be amazing? It’s very frustrating to watch, but I fully expect another round of aid. And I know the counties and nonprofits are listed out specifically because they know that they’re running into these problems. The county and the state is having a hard time. And again, it’s just frustrating. I get it. We’re all connected. It’s just frustrating that they’re wanting us to do something that they themselves can’t afford to do on their backs. They’re doing it on property owners.

So Heroes, if that comes out, it’s everything from $2000 per month or something. And they’ve even had to change the payroll protection program. They’re looking at it anyway, because, you know, some people are having a better time on furlough because they’re making more money than they did on their job. So there’s a lot of really interesting things that they’re having to adjust on the fly with these federal aid programs for that very reason.

I’m very surprised to hear that you’re on time is so high. Do you think that has to do with how you’re vetting people or the kind of properties you manage?

Matthew Tandy: Both. So the reality is that we don’t have a problem managing low rent properties. But what we don’t do is allow them to be managed in a low-end kind of way. So there’s a difference between a non-performing and a performing C-Class property. Right. Many properties that are C-Class probably could be B-class if given enough proper time and management, at least a low B. So when we take on a C-Class property, we basically do an interview before taking on that client and we say, alright, let’s look at the cash outlays. Let’s create a plan, and let’s stick to that plan. And this is how it’s going to be done. So we have this thing we call the Formadic Way, and it’s this handbook that’s about 70 pages long, along with the management agreement that details everything that we do, how we do it, and why we do it. It really gives the whole playbook, and we give that away. We say, you know, there’s no secrets here, there’s no blackbox. And we do that because we want our clients to understand that we’re very particular in how we do things to protect them legally and to protect them financially. Legally, of course. I’ve been beating that legal drum for more than decade, and only now are people in the pandemic only realizing it’s a concern.

So the way it works is that our standards are very strict. We have a rubric, and we can go find it, feel free to copy it. You don’t have to credit me. I’m not going to cry. I go to our Web site and go to Search Rentals and click the link for that. And so that rubric is pretty tough to qualify for. It’s not impossible. And there are cases where, for instance, even someone on Section 8, if they have kept their get their nose up and done a good job with things, they can still qualify. But it’s really about assessing the overall risk. And that’s something that a lot of landlords are moving to. Why is our success rate like that? Because we’re looking a lot of different factors and we score those factors and combine them together. So that’s all there is to it. You’ve just got to be picky. And for clients to say, well, you can’t be that pick with my property. My answer is always, I’d rather your property sit vacant a whole ‘nother month, which we average about eight days. But I would let it sit vacant another month before I put in the wrong tenant. And I think that’s something that most people understand on some level, but when vacancy extends a little bit, they start to get concerned. You mentioned lowering the price for a tenant. And I would say that’s the same concept as it’s better to give a lower rent to a well-qualified tenant than it is to try to get a over market rent to someone who there’s no chance they’re going to pay. And so using that, that’s why our rates are good.

Aaron Norris: Have you had a difficult time renting properties in the last couple of months?

Matthew Tandy: No. In fact, we’re renting faster than ever.

Aaron Norris: Interesting. Why do you think that is?

Matthew Tandy: This is a tricky one to answer again, especially on the back of the other one, Aaron. I don’t want to act like I’m touting for Maddox Horn in a marketing sense, but for those who are property managers who are members of NARPM, which is kind of like the realtor thing. Any agent can get that realtor designation by taking a one-hour online course or three-hour thing. And it’s a joke, right? But it’s the difference between those who participate and those who don’t.

So active members go to the conferences, access to all the wealth of legal resources and advocacy, legal advocacy for our clients and other information. We’ve all been pretty tech forward for a long time. And so because of that, when the governors came in and started saying things like, You can’t… Can you do in-person showings, and what are the rules around it? Agents were suddenly scrambling for things such as virtual tours and self showing technology that for a long time they said was horrible even though the statistics all show that you get better quality tenants and rent the home faster. Well, we were already using all that. We didn’t have to scramble to come up with new systems. We didn’t have to change a single thing. We already have our own matterport cameras and doing 3-D scans of our properties, which is fantastic, especially for re-renting a property when it’s coming vacant. We don’t even have to bother the tenants that are there because we already have scans of the property and people were able to do virtual showings. And so we already had the self showings through our lockboxes where the code changes every single hour. We have all sorts of tools like this, our online rubric, online application process. Since nothing had to change where all these other people, the agents who were doing it as a side business or companies that were not old disasters but old and acted like dinosaurs, which is a difference. You can be an established company and still be very tech forward. I know many of them. The reality is that we were able to move swiftly, and that’s what matters. The dinosaurs got left behind. They’re left scrambling and they’re left trying to do new systems. That means their properties weren’t showing, whereas ours were showing the whole time. We’re still renting almost twice as fast as normal and to very qualified people.

Aaron Norris: You’ve got an interesting perspective because you are in several Southern California markets. I was listening to Redfin’s CEO this morning on an interview with CS NBC, and he was talking about the urban experience. I lived in New York City where you can’t escape density. Are you seeing people making the choice to exit cities like Los Angeles because of the pandemic?

Matthew Tandy: Yes, but not so much because of density, although we’ll call it a side effect of density. We know that the more urbanly dense it is, the more the politics tend to drive towards a slant. That doesn’t work for everybody. That may not be appealing to everybody there. A pandemic hits urban areas like New York or L.A. much harder than the Inland Empire. I’m still baffled by we’ve shut a lot of things down in the inland Empire. We’re pretty calm here outside of, unfortunately, nursing homes are the problem. But outside of that, it’s pretty tame. So we do have people who said that they want to get away from areas like L.A.. In part, we had one person mention that they were concerned about riots in the future. I haven’t really thought of it before, but it’s a distinct possibility if people can’t pay rent and evictions start happening when the courts open back up. You know that there’s going to be class warfare. You know, there’s gonna be racial undertones to some of it, unfortunately. And so because of that, you know, he was concerned and he wanted to leave.

Aaron Norris: Do you have a lot of landlords actively talking to you about wanting to leave the state?

Matthew Tandy: Not as many as you would think. I would say no more than normal. Most of those conversations happened when AB1482, the Tenant Protection Act, got passed. When it came into effect, we sent the mailers to all of our clients giving them the heads up. We had a lot of conversations. I think, Aaron, that it’s still a conversation that most investors, savvy investors, once they understand the reality of it, they don’t really pursue it further. It really comes down to most of our clients are looking for long term buy and hold protections and asset growth. And California still, with all the crazy laws, the only reason California can keep passing these laws is because it’s still a haven for long term holding of cash. I’ve given this example many times, but if you have a $200 cash on cash property, a monthly cash on cash property in Texas, and you have a property that you buy here from government price that’s negative cash flow, $200 a month, and I mean true cash flow after you account for reserves and things like that, you may think, well, obviously for the same price, I’m gonna go for Texas. And if you need cash flow right away, that’s a wise choice.

However, your property taxes go up in every state except for California every one to two years, and you can’t stop it. The rents typically keep up with or even underpace the property taxes in some of these areas. And that’s a problem because in five years you’ll still be making two hundred, maybe one hundred fifty a month on that Texas property, whereas in California since your tax base is capped at an increase of 1 percent per annum on your property taxes, then five years from now your negative $200 cash flow, with rents going up, that’s going to be probably a positive $200, and in 10 years it’s going to be positive $800. In fifteen years, it’s gonna be even more. So we just have more rent growth even with tenant protection acts. It’s a much better place to build your money long term if you can afford to hold on to it. A decade ago, I used to tell people if you want to self-manage, self-manage. Bring in a manager if you want to spend more time doing investing. Now we have to unfortunately say that in states like California, Colorado is just as crazy these days, we have to say no, we would strongly discourage you from self-managing. Just because you’ve done it for a long time doesn’t mean you’re current on all the laws.

They passed a law near the end of last year that said that Section 8 is now a source of protected income, which makes it a fair housing issue if you deny someone. Orange County’s courts in one day went from just a handful of filings under fair housing to adding over 100 lawsuits. Those are fifteen thousand dollars starting on the penalties. So you just don’t want to mess with that stuff. And my insurance is through the roof. I pay almost fifteen thousand dollars a year in insurance, and that protects our clients and ourselves because it is crazy. So, yeah, it is risky if you’re not aware of what you’re doing, if you don’t have the right protections. But if you do and you can afford to hold on, then it’s still a great place. Now, that said, do I believe in diversifying outside the state, Aaron? Absolutely. While it’s good right now, I don’t know what they’re going to do five years from now. Heck, right now, you couldn’t have told me six months ago, even living in California, I would have not really believed that some of the stuff they’ve been passing in the last three months would ever actually become a reality. So diversification certainly helps with many things.

Aaron Norris: One of the things that’s coming up this week is the split role property tax as the state talks about how they’re close to bankruptcy. And we’re going into what’s going to be a very tumultuous election season. A lot of times, state bills get put on a big election year because more people will show up, especially in states like California. Are apartment buildings part of that mix on the split role, or is it just industrial or other kinds of commercial buildings? How does that work?

Matthew Tandy: It’s been a while since I’ve read a copy of it. It’s probably been about four months now, right before the pandemic. But most residential apartments were excluded. I want to say there may have been one case where they would, but it’s a combination of revenue, rents, and in that density. So most properties in that split roll, in this version, we all know it’s a foot in the door. In this version, the vast majority of properties wouldn’t even be affected, even commercial properties. But the difference is, and this is important from a voting standpoint, that doesn’t mean you can sit back. Because the whole tax roll situation we have came from a voter’s act, no one at the state level and legislature can change anything with that. That’s all those are set up. If they pass this, my understanding is it will enable the state in the future legislatures to make modifications thereof to how it’s applied. And that would be a problem because now they have a foot in the door and now they don’t need the voters to vote for changes. Now, they couldn’t make it all of a sudden extend to houses, but it could say things like, “Inflation, we need to change it to instead of a one million dollar valuation, we need to change it to something else.” Budget shortfalls. 

Aaron Norris: I bought rentals starting in 2012. But, you know, we helped a lot of investors get back into the market in ’09. So they were buying stuff in the Inland Empire. They’re sitting on three-bedroom, two bathroom houses built in the 70s and 80s that they bought for $60 to $90 grand that are now worth, you know, well over $200 grand. So if overnight you get told, hey, your property taxes are going to be adjusted to market value, that can be really scary and really change your numbers a great deal. So people just need to pay attention. I have personally gone away from managing the vast majority of my properties for what you just said. I belong to a lot of associations in the lending space and in the real estate investor space. I don’t have time to get down, unfortunately, at the county level. NARPM, the California Association of Apartment Managers, you know, there’s a lot of different groups. It’s not just about getting involved in understanding at the state level. You really do have to get down to the local level because it’s so different. Is there anything in sort of the L.A., Orange County and the Inland Empire that you’re really worried about or you’re scratching your head where you’re like, What are you thinking. Mom and pop investors still managing on their own is what we should be really looking at.

Matthew Tandy: I think the big things are going to be the forgivness aspects, how long to repay and how long this goes on. So Los Angeles has talked about and other cities mentioned that they could extend the stay at home or have it on tighter controls in the state for another six to 18 months. That would be devastating if you’re a mom and pop landlord in that area and you don’t have those reserves. I think what this has really brought forward more than anything isn’t specific concerns for an area that are really that shocking. I think if you were paying even a modicum of attention in the last five, 10 years, you would have known the risks to some degree, even if you don’t know the details. Even if you don’t get down into the weeds, you can see there’s weeds. One advice that I’m giving to everybody that I’ve always given is that one of the challenges that we see with landlords, especially new ones, but also some will call them Wild West style landlords, they look at a best case scenario at all times and they need that money now. And you can tell them you got to save up money in reserves and they just haven’t done it.

So I have a couple of clients, accidental landlords, who we have tried to teach and tried to educate. We have programs for that. So you need to get the money? Well, we have one where the tenant didn’t pay on time and this owner got a late fee for the mortgage. Now, they shouldn’t because we told them how to get a forbearance. But let’s ignore that part. The reality is that he just doesn’t have the resources, but he’s had this property for four years and doesn’t have enough to even make a single mortgage payment. My advice has always been the same. When you are able to, maybe you just put a little bit towards it at every time, save up three to six months of all of your expenses on a property, that’s a mortgage, HOA, utilities, whatever the case may be. Save it up. Put that in reserve. And by the way, for those who are buying big residential commercial properties, so big apartment complexes, you know how this works, right? Because to get a commercial loan on a 50-plex, 100-plex, the lender pretty much always makes you put three to 12 months of reserves in a cash count. So for all those owners who were complaining about that and why do I have to do this? They’re all counting their lucky stars right now. But it’s single-family home investors that don’t understand that because the lenders don’t require that on investment properties, and now they’re stuck wondering how am I going to pay my bills?

I am always disturbed when I see some of these scenes being pushed by people who very openly have decried even the concept of private property rights. It’s concerning to see those people gain a larger, larger voice. I love property rights, and I think it’s a foundation, a bedrock of our economy and of our country and of our personal civil rights. But to see them gain greater voices sitting in larger ratios on councils, that is disturbing, and this is where I just kind of have to try to have hope and faith that on a larger scale things will continue okay.

Aaron Norris: Yeah. Just because all this is going on and somebody is not making the rent doesn’t mean you as a landlord aren’t responsible for things like fixes.

Matthew Tandy: Correct. And one aspect I have said about this, and this is a major element, is that some of these things that are being pushed politically, there’s no chance that they’re going to stand up in court at all. None. Some of them will. But some of them there’s no way. However, by the time you work through the courts to get there, you’re years later and the people who are most hurt by it no longer have those properties and they’ve lost their dreams. And yes, you have to repair. We’re dealing with one right now. We just took on a new client who bought a property with the tenant in place. And it’s a nightmare situation. We never would’ve advised them to do this, but they were sent to us within a week and we’ll have to deal with it. But it’s a situation where now the occupant is claiming that all sorts of things, lack of heat, a quarter-sized hole in the ceiling. All those things will put the kibosh on any eviction when the courts open up. And so the owner who didn’t have the money set aside for this for some odd reason when investing now has to have all that fixed before we can even legitimately file to stand a chance of it not being kicked out. And this tenant knows it. In fact, he cited it because there are groups out there putting out webinars, putting out Web sites that are all about how to basically, in my vernacular, be how to stick it to the man, especially during the coronavirus, so be cautious of that. More than anything is these tenant rights groups, as what they’re called, anti-landlord groups.

Aaron Norris: Yeah. It’s just you have to be aware and stay really engaged. Well, I really appreciate your time. How can people get a hold of you and find out more about Formatic.

Matthew Tandy: So they can reach out to me by email. Our customer service, which comes through me always, is going to be hello@formaticpm.com, like propertymanagment.com. Web site is for www.formaticpm.com, and my line is 951-547-1604. That’s my direct line. And one thing I do say is that if you have questions, I’ve done over 4,000 rentals across the country, I’m happy to give you information. You do not have to worry about being sold on Formatics. If you have questions about what’s happening, I’m happy to answer them. I’d feel pretty bad if I could have taken a minute to answer a simple question or give some guidance. And I didn’t. And you lost your shirt. So reach out to me. I’m always happy to help.

Aaron Norris: I’m just curious. Can mom and pop landlords join NARPM?

Matthew Tandy: No, NARPM is for actual managers. If they have multi-family, they can join the California Apartment Association. Anyone listening, if you have multifamily and you’re not part of them, you absolutely should join them, especially because of the legal advocacy. They are really out there gathering information, fighting for landlord rights. Unfortunately, there’s not a lot of good trade organizations. There’s some out there. They’re all a little wonky on some level, but I’m sure they’ll see an increase here shortly.

Aaron Norris: Yeah. It’s just so important to also support these agencies just because they are fighting for property rights. So the California Association Association of Realtors. I was just curious. I wasn’t sure about the barrier of entry of NARPM. So anyway, just wanted to bring that up. Thank you so much for your time today. And we will make sure to post all your information on the Web site when this goes up today as well.

Matthew Tandy: I appreciate it. Take care.

The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669.  For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.

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